Yes sir!
Definitely singles for now - maybe we could think about teams once we build up some numbers. Ideally a weekly ranbat thing…what day/time would be best for everyone?
And it’s settled, Rasputin is next for frame data!
Thanks,
Josh.
this game runs fast, so later at night when people are likely to be home is good. Sunday nights, maybe? Is that cool with people?
im down for anyday after 8 pm est
I got this for PS2 finally. I’m thinking once I get some more time in with it and my buddies, I’ll seek out the emulation version and see about throwing down with you guys!
I’m liking Rasputin and Ryoko so far, but I think we’ll see who else I dig in this game.
Sounds great, Uber. Join us for tips on #whp on efnet!
Yay I finally found a copy of the anthology at The Exchange.
Also, I’m wondering something…should we make #whp into the general SNK IRC channel? All these other games need matchmaking too, and it would help with the planning stuff and make Dark Geese’s thread just a bit less of a clusterfuck.
Right now that makes the most sense to me, but I’d be interested to hear any thoughts!
Thanks,
Josh.
lets either use #snk or make #srksnk
I like it. My thing is, having a separate channel for each of these games would be completely unnecessary at this point.
And Rasputin frame data coming…tomorrow, perhaps? This should go much quicker now that I’ve got the basic outline saved in Wordpad - would only have to change the numbers and a few other misc. things.
-Josh
ggs keits
thanks for beating me up with hanzo
ok, my mother had this huge project and i helped her with it the past few days
so now i can get back to world heroes <3 <3 <3
You KNOW this ain’t staying off the first page too long!
The wait is over, people…
RASPUTIN:
Standing LP: 6f, +7 on standing block, +8 on crouch block, +2 on standing hit, +1 on crouching hit
Standing MP: 8f, -11 on standing block, -10 on crouch block, -3 on standing hit, -2 on crouching hit
Standing HP: 10f, -8 on standing block, -7 on crouch block, +0 on standing hit, will not hit crouchers
Standing LK: 4f, +9 on standing block, +10 on crouch block, +9 on standing hit, +8 on crouching hit
Standing MK: 7f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Standing HK: 9f, -8 on standing block, -6 on crouch block
Far f/b+HP: 11-12f, -10 on standing block, -8 on crouch block, -5 on standing hit, -4 on crouching hit
Close f/b+HP: 6f, -6 on standing block, -4 on crouch block, +2 on standing hit, +0 on crouching hit
Far f/b+LK: 4f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
Close f/b+LK: 4f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +3 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Crouching LP: 5f, +7 on standing block, +8 on crouch block, +7 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Crouching MP: 5f, -1 on standing block, +0 on crouch block, +2 on standing hit, +0 on crouching hit
Crouching HP: 6f, +3 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching LK: 5f, +1 on block, +0 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Crouching MK: 8f, -1 on block, +1 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Crouching HK: 7-15f, -5 on block
Jumping LP: 6f
Jumping MP: 9f
Jumping HP: 11f
Jumping LK: 5f
Jumping MK: 5f
Jumping HK: 4f
Dashing LP: 6f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +0 on crouching hit
Dashing MP: 8f, -3 on standing block, -2 on crouch block, -3 on standing hit, -2 on crouching hit
Dashing HP: 6f, -7 on standing block, -5 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing LK: 4f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Dashing MK: 7f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Dashing HK: 9f, -8 on standing block, -6 on crouch block
Dashing d+LP: 5f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MP: 5f, -1 on standing block, +0 on crouch block, +2 on standing hit, +0 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HP: 6f, +3 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing d+LK: 5f, +1 on block, +0 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MK: 8f, -1 on block, +1 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HK: 7-15f, -5 on block
ABC: 13f, -14 on standing block, -12 on crouch block
qcb+LK: 8f, -2 on standing block, -1 on crouch block
qcb+MK: 10f, -5 on standing block, -4 on crouch block
qcb+HK: 12f, -7 on standing block, -6 on crouch block
qcb+LK in air: 5f, +0 on standing block, +1 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +5 on crouching hit
qcb+MK in air: 6f, +0 on standing block, +1 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +5 on crouching hit
qcb+HK in air: 7f, +0 on standing block, +1 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +5 on crouching hit
qcb+LP: 25f, -7 or better on standing block, -6 or better on crouch block, +18 or better on hit
qcb+MP: 28f, -7 or better on standing block, -6 or better on crouch block, +18 or better on hit
qcb+HP: 32f, -7 or better on standing block, -6 or better on crouch block, +18 or better on hit
hcf+LP: 36f, +18 or better on standing block, +19 or better on crouch block
hcf+MP: 42f, +18 or better on standing block, +19 or better on crouch block
hcf+HP: 46f, +18 or better on standing block, +19 or better on crouch block
qcf+LP: 17f, -14 or better on standing block, -13 or better on crouch block
qcf+MP: 21f, -13 or better on standing block, -12 or better on crouch block
qcf+HP: 21f, -8 or better on standing block, -7 or better on crouch block
qcf+LP in air: 19f, -27 or better on standing block, -26 or better on crouch block
qcf+MP in air: 22f, -27 or better on standing block, -26 or better on crouch block
qcf+HP in air: 25f, -27 or better on standing block, -26 or better on crouch block
qcb+LK w/ full meter: 8f, -1 on standing block, +0 on crouch block
qcb+MK w/ full meter: 10f, -3 on standing block, -2 on crouch block
qcb+HK w/ full meter: 12f, -5 on standing block, -4 on crouch block
qcb+LK in air w/ full meter: 5f, -6 on standing block, -5 on crouch block, -2 on standing hit, -4 on crouching hit
qcb+MK in air w/ full meter: 6f, -6 on standing block, -5 on crouch block, -2 on standing hit, -4 on crouching hit
qcb+HK in air w/ full meter: 7f, -6 on standing block, -5 on crouch block, -2 on standing hit, -4 on crouching hit
qcb,f+LP+LK: 44f
qcb,f+LP+LK w/ full meter: 43f
Whew, this one took forever! Darn those crappy air specials…
And Keits, please edit the thread title with our new IRC channel!
-Josh
this gave me a hard on
Well, get ready for more, people! This time, I picked a character with especially annoying rushdown, one against whom knowing the frames will help!
DRAGON:
Far LP: 4f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
Far MP: 5f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Far HP: 10f, +0 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Far LK: 4f, -3 on standing block, -2 on crouch block, -3 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Far MK: 7f, +5 on standing block, +5 on standing hit, whiffs crouchers
Standing HK: 6f, +0 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Close LP: 3f, -1 on standing block, +0 on crouch block, -1 on standing hit, +1 on crouching hit
Close MP: 5f, +7 on standing block, +8 on crouch block, +10 on standing hit, +8 on crouching hit
Close HP: 6f, +5 on standing block, +7 on crouch block, +10 on standing hit, +11 on crouching hit
Close LK: 4f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +3 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Close MK: 5f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +8 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
f+HK: 12f, -10 on standing block, -8 on crouch block
Crouching LP: 3f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching MP: 5f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Crouching HP: 6f, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Crouching LK: 4f, +6 on block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching MK: 4f, +1 on block, +3 on standing hit, +1 on crouching hit
Crouching HK: 4f, -1 on block
Jumping LP: 4f
Jumping MP: 4f
Jumping HP: 6f
Jumping LK: 5f
Neutral Jumping LK: 4-20f
Jumping MK: 4f
Neutral Jumping MK: 4-5f
Jumping HK: 4f
Neutral Jumping HK: 5f
Dashing LP: 4f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +2 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing MP: 5f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +6 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Dashing HP: 6f, +4 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +9 on standing hit, +10 on crouching hit
Dashing LK: 4f, -3 on standing block, -2 on crouch block, -3 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing MK: 7f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Dashing HK: 12f, -11 on standing block, -9 on crouch block
Dashing d+LP: 3f, +3 on standing block, +4 on crouch block, +3 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MP: 5f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HP: 6f, +1 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+LK: 4f, +2 on block, +1 on standing hit, +0 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MK: 4f, -2 on block, +0 on standing hit, -2 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HK: 4f, +4 on block
ABC: Counters attacks which touch Dragons fist on frames 2-16, has 32f recovery
d+ABC: Counters attacks which hit Dragon below his raised leg on frames 4-19, has 32f recovery
Mash LP: 5f, frame data varies but the opponent always gets pushed out of the move and can hit Dragon during it
Mash MP: 4f, frame data varies but the opponent always gets pushed out of the move and can hit Dragon during it
Mash HP: 4f, frame data varies but the opponent always gets pushed out of the move and can hit Dragon during it
qcf+LK:: 7f, -10 on standing block, -9 on crouch block, -7 on standing hit, -9 on crouching hit
qcf+MK: 11f, -8 on standing block, -6 on crouch block, -3 on standing hit, -3 on crouching hit
qcf+HK: 19f, -19 on standing block, -17 on crouch block
d,u+LK: 9f, -18 on standing block, -16 on crouch block
d,u+MK: 11f, -30 on standing block, -28 on crouch block
d,u+HK: 13f, -37 on standing block, -35 on crouch block
hcb+LK: 18f, can attack on the way down, opponent has an 8-frame gap to attack if the last hit misses
hcb+MK: 21f, can attack on the way down, opponent has an 8-frame gap to attack if the last hit misses
hcb+HK: 23f, can attack on the way down, opponent has an 8-frame gap to attack if the last hit misses
d,u+LK w/ full meter: 9f, -14 on standing block, -12 on crouch block
d,u+MK w/ full meter: 10f, -24 on standing block, -22 on crouch block
d,u+HK w/ full meter: 12f, -35 on standing block, -39 on crouch block
f,b,f+MP+MK: 29-52f, -15 on standing block, -14 on crouch block
f,b,f+MP+MK w/ full meter: 28-41f, -15 on standing block, -14 on crouch block
NOTES: Dragon can walljump after d,u+K and attack again, so the move is much safer than it seems from the data. The mash P move, on the other hand, is almost always punishable even when it hits; it does a ton of damage, so it’s good if you know it will win the round, but otherwise you’re better off sticking with the qcf+K in combos.
Have fun,
Josh.
Awesome stuff, you guys are doing a great effort to raise interest in this game.
One thing I wanted to comment, though: there’s an error in the first post and the part 1 of the character introductions links to the feature and terms list. I was searching for some info to get started on Mudman and I noticed that by accident. The info is on the same page so it’s not a big deal though.
Also, here are a couple general things I’ve learned from this:
- If you use one attack, then “buffer” into another (that is, execute it ASAP), it will remove a frame of startup from the second one. That probably sounds very confusing, so I’ll use an example:
Dragon’s low MK is +3 on a standing opponent. The low MK has a 4-frame startup, yet he can link two of them in a row. This doesn’t make sense until you realize that linking a low MK removes a frame of startup…so it’s 3 frames and thus will link from a +3 move.
It turns out that this is indeed a general rule of this game. So when using the frame data to come up with possible combos & pressure strings, keep in mind that you can use moves whose startup is 1 frame longer than your advantage.
- It turns out that I was partially right when I thought that autoguard moves were high/low dependent. Actually, only part of your character’s body will autoguard, while the rest of the sprite is vulnerable. Erick is the most obvious example; his autoguard moves will work on anything that touches his shield.
Also, all autoguard begins on the 2nd frame of a move, so you cannot use these attacks as true reversals. They still work if your opponent’s string isn’t airtight, though.
Hope this helps, and see ya later!
-Josh
Just out of curiosity, where did you get the frame data? Is there a Japanese WHP mook or something?
That’s a really awesome job you’re doing with frame data & stuff.
Fixed it for ya. Sorry about that and thanks for pointing it out. Mudman is one of my mains, so if you need some help feel free to contact me.
The frame data is being done with framestep BY HAND by the guru himself, Josh. Show this man your respect.
Thanks, everyone! I’ve been saying for awhile now that this is why I think, with enough effort, the older games can become very competitive - you can find frame data and get great online play with anything that’s emulated.
I should make a tutorial vid on the frame data sometime - MAME 0.64 (pause and press Shift+P for frame advance) is the best emulator to use since nFBA’s frame-advance feature is broken. You can use any version of MAME or Kawaks, though - you just need to figure out how much extra delay the emulator adds, and subtract that from your numbers. All games naturally have 1 frame of delay (which is also subtracted), so anything beyond that is due to the emulator; we’re not sure whether this is the case for all Neo games, actually, but that’s a bit off-topic.
Counting startup frames is obvious, and advantage/disadvantage isn’t much harder: Just have both characters hold forward during the move, and see who gets to move first and for how long. Counters and dodge-type moves are probably the trickiest things to figure out, as well as throws in games where they’re not instant. I’ve been lucky in the latter regard, as all throws are instant in both games I’ve data-mined (RB2 and this).
I don’t think I’ll be doing more games anytime soon after this, though, as it is a significant time investment.
Thanks again,
Josh.
Man, just crankin’ em out here…
RYOFU:
Standing LP: 8f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Standing MP: 7f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Standing HP: 12f, +5 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Standing LK: 6f, +5 on standing block, +6 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Standing MK: 12f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Standing HK: 6-8f, -4 on standing block, -2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
f+HP: 12f, -3 on standing block, -1 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
f+HK: 17f, -6 on standing block, -4 on crouch block
Crouching LP: 7f, +7 on standing block, +8 on crouch block, +7 on standing hit, +6 on crouching hit
Crouching MP: 13f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +5 on standing hit, +3 on crouching hit
Crouching HP: 12f, -3 on standing block, -1 on crouch block
Crouching LK: 5f, +6 on block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching MK: 11f, +3 on block, +5 on standing hit, +4 on crouching hit
Crouching HK: 14f, +5 on block, +11 on standing hit, +9 on crouching hit
Jumping LP: 7f
Jumping MP: 7f
Jumping HP: 8f
Jumping LK: 4f
Jumping MK: 6f
Jumping HK: 7f
Dashing LP: 8f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +0 on crouching hit
Dashing MP: 7f, -2 on standing block, -1 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing HP: 12f, +4 on standing hit, +5 on crouching hit
Dashing LK: 6f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, +0 on crouching hit
Dashing MK: 12f, -2 on standing block, -1 on crouch block, +1 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing HK: 6-8f, -5 on standing block, -3 on crouch block, +0 on standing hit, +1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+LP: 7f, +2 on standing block, +3 on crouch block, +2 on standing hit, +1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MP: 13f, +1 on standing block, +2 on crouch block, +4 on standing hit, +2 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HP: 12f, -10 on standing block, -8 on crouch block
Dashing d+LK: 5f, +9 on block, +8 on standing hit, +7 on crouching hit
Dashing d+MK: 11f, -2 on block, +0 on standing hit, -1 on crouching hit
Dashing d+HK: 14f, +4 on block, +10 on standing hit, +8 on crouching hit
ABC: Gives 2x damage bonus to Ryofus next attack on frame 87, has additional 2f recovery
ABC in air: Can be used 13f after jumping, has 4f startup before you can drop downward and additional 2f after dropping before you can attack
f/d/b+ABC in air: Can be used 13f after jumping, has 6f startup before you can attack
Mash LP: 4f, generally -6 on hit or block, but there are gaps in the middle of the move
Mash MP: 4f, generally -9 on hit or block, but there are gaps in the middle of the move
Mash HP: 4f, last hit is -16 on standing block and -14 on crouch block, but there are gaps in the middle of the move
qcf+LP:: 37f, -2 on standing block, +0 on crouch block, +3 on hit
qcf+MP: 41f, -7 on standing block, -5 on crouch block, -2 on hit
qcf+HP: 45f, -7 on standing block, -5 on crouch block, -2 on hit
qcb+LP: 20f, -4 on standing block, -2 on crouch block
qcb+MP: 20f, -10 on standing block, -8 on crouch block
qcb+HP: 20f, -16 on standing block, -14 on crouch block
hcf+LK in air: 9f, -27 to -6 on standing block, -23 to -5 on crouch block
hcf+MK in air: 14f, -27 to -6 on standing block, -23 to -5 on crouch block
hcf+HK in air: 18f, -27 to -6 on standing block, -23 to -5 on crouch block
qcf+LP w/ full meter: 37f, -3 on standing block, -1 on crouch block
qcf+MP w/ full meter: 41f, -8 on standing block, -6 on crouch block
qcf+HP w/ full meter: 45f, -11 on standing block, -9 on crouch block
hcb,u/b+HK: 50f, -51 or better on standing block, -49 or better on crouch block
hcb,u/b+HK w/ full meter: 49f, -11 or better on standing block, -9 or better on crouch block
NOTES: Ryofu’s mash P move almost always leaves small gaps even when it hits; the opponent can DP or use an autoguard move or such. Just as with Dragon’s equivalent, only combo it if you know it will win the round.
To get the shortest recovery from the hcf+K in the air, you must connect with your opponent as low as possible so that Ryofu will just land instead of bouncing backwards.
I had no idea his low HK and the dashing low short were that good…:devil:
-Josh
OMFG u guys are so dedicated to this game. I’m glad I play it now, it’s so fun. I just got to get my buddies on the band wagon.
Quick question and I bet this has been asked a whole bunch of times but:
Is there a difference between WH Anthology and WH Gorgeous?