Working Overtime: The C.Viper Technical Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
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Because of the somewhat tight execution C. Viper needs to pull off many of her moves I felt like there needed to be a separate thread within the forum for easy access to the information rather than thoroughly searching through the 3 different threads with I dont know how many pages for the desired information.

This thread will be a place to discuss different techniques that C. Viper possesses such as feints, Rapid Seismo Canceling, Viper Ball and more.

We will discuss how to use different techniques, their purpose, and how to apply them into battle.

A post for each different technique Viper has will be placed in each Reserved Slot and their will be a few additional reserved slots just incase some new tech is found for C. Viper. Once ready Each reserved slot will be filled with information on how to do each technique and how to apply them into battle.

Their will be a possibility that information will be placed into the bottom of each post regarding what assists go well with her moves and different feints/ect. Not sure if I should do that or not but its up in the air.

I will be open to suggestions on how this thread should be laid out. Also the title is the only thing I could come up with so if there is something more clever out there go ahead and post it.

Edit: also I’m not sure if these are the official names for these techniques but it has been what I’ve been calling them around here if anyone wants to change it just tell me.

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Rapid Seismos

Rapid Siesmo is one of C. Vipers most important tools on the fate of two worlds. Mastering this technique gives you a great zoning game. You control the screen from the ground to anything in regular jumping range and about 4/5ths of the screen. Mastering this technique and mastering how to apply it is crucial to her game.

How to: This technique uses one of her most known tools in Street Fighter VI which is the super jump cancel (SJC). To preform a SJC you do a :d: :u: motion as soon as the first seismo hits the ground. This causes you to cancel and jump out of it. There are 3 start-up frames in a jump before you actually take to the air. The way to doing a rapid seismo is to be able to do a seismo into SJC into another seismo.

This is technically how the game wants the inputs to be to trigger a rapid seismo.

:dp:+:atk: :d::u::dp:+:atk: <— (Not the way to do it. Just an explanation of how it is meant to work.)

The notation above is way too many inputs and is impossible to pull off within the 3 frames necessary to create a Rapid Seismo.

Thanks to Capcom’s lenient button inputs there is a very easy way to combine both a seismo into an SJC seismo.

:dp:+:atk: :dp::uf:+:atk: <— (Rapid Seismo Input)

You are simply placing the input for the first seismo and then doing another seismo with an :uf: motion added to it as you press the attack button. This causes the game to think you have placed the necessary inputs to preform a rapid seismo since between the second seismo input you have already placed a :d: motion and added an :uf: motion.

Doing it Right: Now that we know the motion to the Rapid Seismo Input you should give it a try. It isn’t hard to do but doing it consistently and fast is another thing.

To get it right there is one thing you have to know that during the rapid seismo (at least in my experience.) If you ever let the joystick hit the dead zone (aka the position where the joystick is when you don’t touch it) you cannot do the rapid seismo at 100% speed consistently. If you try to do rapid seismos at 100% speed letting the joystick dead zone you will most likely get a SJC Thunder Knuckle to come out.

Simply put, avoid the dead zone in Rapid Seismos.

This is the way I do a rapid seismo in a series of steps. (which I can’t remember who told me this but it helped me a lot so I assume it will help others)

  1. First you do the :dp: ofcourse then :atk: when you finish the first seismo you continue to hold :f: for a split second to buffer/register the start of the next seismo.

  2. From there i move to :d::df::f::uf:+:atk:

  3. Next from :uf: you would think to reset to the dead zone to do it again but of course we don’t. From there you move back down to :f: and then cross over to :d: then :df::f::uf:+:atk:. Rinse Repeat.

You could also do it as a sliding motion or consider it an “L” shape pattern and continue drawing an L (backwards L in this case) with the joystick after the 2nd seismo. This is how the button input will look if you use this method.

:dp:+:atk: :f::df::d::df::f::uf:+:atk: :f::df::d::df::f::uf:+:atk:

This “L” shape method is less efficient considering you will be adding unnecessary motions to the rapid seismo, but if it helps you go around the dead zone more than skipping the :df: from :f: to :d: then go for it.

Doing it Wrong: Its good to know where your mistake lies when something other than another seismo comes out of your SJC cancels.

There are 2 things that happen when you do rapid seismos wrong.

  1. You jump in the air. The cause of this is you aren’t pressing the :d: motion or some part of the :df: :f: motion within the SJC seismo. Be weary of your timing of the :atk: input. It’s not hard but that could also be the cause if you press the :atk: button late. In most cases though the jumping comes from not completing the right motions on the joystick.

  2. You do a Thunder Knuckle. I go into greater detail into why this happens and how to prevent it above in the area talking about “dead zones” but it involves you not pressing :f: immediately after :uf:+:atk: on the rapid seismo cancel.

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Thunder Knuckle Feints

C. Vipers thunder knuckle feints (tk feint) are not necessarily one of her greatest tools, but in specific situations you can use them to extend combos, cancel your attacks to make them safe when you make a mistake, create frame traps and even setup tick-throws. If mastered this can help expand your mix-up game when you catch an opponent blocking on the ground.

How To: This is pretty straight foward compared to rapid seismos. Whenever you start a thunder knuckle you can cancel between the start-up frames and depending on the strength between 1-2 active frames by pressing :s: (the launcher/exchange button)

:d::df::f:+:atk:~:s: (Button input for a tk feint)

It’s very easy to do, but at the same time can be hard depending on where and how you want to use it.

The Strengths:

Each thunder knuckle has different frames on start-up where you cannot cancel out of it. This causes specific ones to be slower/faster than others.

Light TK feint: feint is the slowest and rather impractical to use. You might be able to duck under some projectiles while gaining a little ground but it is almost not worth it. The only time I could see this feint being used is on frame traps. You can cancel the thunderknuckle on hit and go into a combo but it is a 1 frame link and even though you’re safe if you dont get the TK feint on hit it is still really hard to use. Needs more testing but it seems pretty useless to use.

Medium TK feint: This feint is much better to use than the light TK feint because of the medium TK properties. You have instant momentum when you start the TK and you can set-up tick throws by doing a delayed m.TK feint to get in. Just as the Light TK feint you can feint on hit of a medium TK feint to continue a combo but it is very very hard seeing that feint is also a one-framer on hit. Medium TK feint can also be used to do a reverse mix-up on a jump in setup that an opponent attempts. (Best used in regular jumps, box dashes and tri-dashes. Anything that gives the opponent forward momentum). Timed right and close enough you can cross under the opponent and on a late feint can cancel and have enough time before they hit the ground to start your own mix-up. Very very deceptive if you have a magneto tri-dash rushdown on your hands.

Heavy TK feint: This is the fastest to use and all around is the easiest to use. You can do immediate feints her to create very fast and deceptive tick throws off of a close standing :l: I use this personally if I ever lockdown a character with an assist that has a decent amount of block-stun. Here you can reset the hit-stun on the last hit of the assist by pressing st.L heavy TK feint ~ Throw. This heavy TK feint can also make you relatively safe if you mess up a normal input and see that you might get hit. You completely cancel all frames to that normal. Theoretically it would help you but in reality the game is sometimes too fast to implement that sort of tactic into a battle. For combos this is by far the easiest feint and most practical to use to hit the opponent and continue a combo. You can get insane amount of damage when you use this in the right combo. This heavy TK feint on hit is also part of the infinite that is known in the community.

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Burning Kick Feints

Burning Kick feints have quite possibly got to be the greatest tool Viper has. These feints can help you avoid hyper combos, make your landing from a jump or super jump unpredictable, extend a combo for more damage, create instant overhead mix-ups and even create a powerful 50/50 throw reset/EX.BK in the right situations. You can do this three times up in the air mixed with her 8 way dash you can have very unpredictable movement.

**How To: **This, like the Thunder Knuckle Feint are almost the same to do.

:d::db::b:+:atk:~:s:

You can do this from the ground or the air and are less difficult to do than the Thunder knuckle feints

The Strengths

Again, like the Thunder knuckle feint the strength of each button will give you different results and can be applied to different situations.

Light BK feint:

The light BK feint is your best bet to continue combos, do instant overheads and create air throw resets. This specific strength is the quickest BK feint and is easily the most used in battle. This will likely be your most used strength because of the quickness. The properties of the light burning kick do not give Viper as much of a pop or drastic change in direction as the other strengths which means when you use this as a feint you will only pop up a little bit. You will keep your forward momentum for the most part. You can also do a delayed feint off the light burning kick to grab more of a pop if necessary. This strength is great to apply to the ‘Viper Ball’ for an instant overhead. The Viper Ball will be explained down below the strengths.

Medium BK feint:

This strength of the burning kick will probably always be under used. I believe it is very useful to learn and understand its movement properties because even though it isn’t as fast as the light BK feint (very very close to the same speed as the light version maybe 1 frame off 2 at the most) it can keep you in front of the opponent if you are trying to continue a combo in the air. This has a bit more pop than the light version and less horizontal speed. I’ve found this useful on smaller characters so you don’t go under/over them like you can with the light version, but you must experiment with this one to get a grasp of what it is good for. All strengths when used right can be combo accessories. I can’t stress that enough. This is a very powerful tool.

Heavy BK feint:

Heavy BK feint when used gives as much pop as a double jump. So in a sense you have 3 double jumps and one air-dash. Makes things extremely unpredictable in the air. Mixed with strengths it probably wont matter as much but this just gives you so many things you can do in the air! This strength combined with Viper Ball gives a very wild end result. It is so different from the rest of the character’s motions in the game that it can throw someone off a bit. That and you gain so much pop in the air you will go over most grounded projectiles with no problem. You will gain a lot of momentum very very fast. Off of one Viper Ball combined with a tri-dash you will gain double almost triple the ground you would than any regular tri-dash. Very powerful.

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Seismo Feints

Work in progress? Is it really necessary? We’ll see.

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Viper Ball

Burn kicks akin to Street Fighter inherit the momentum Viper has when she starts the Burning Kick feint, because of this you can have very fast close to the ground motion off of super jump forward instant burn kick feint AKA the Viper Ball.

How to: The viper ball seems simple but is quite possibly one of the hardest techniques to get down with Viper.

:d::db::b::uf:~:atk:~:s:.

This essentially is the Cammy Dive-kick buffer before Arcade Edition. Only the execution is so much more strict than the Cammy dive-kick. This is probably because you can jump faster of the ground than in Street Fighter 4 (not sure if this is true but it is my guess) and you cannot hit :u::ub: as you move the joystick to :uf: otherwise you jump to whatever up motion you pressed first.

With this Viper essentially gets a KoF hop/super hop with a ridiculously useful horizontal arc, with this from an incredibly far distance away you can hit double to triple overheads very quickly and more importantly if you time it right it comes out faster than her trijump by a very significant margin. It’s very close in speed to her :d::u: air dash forward :a: except horizontal instead of vertical. Thanks to its arc hitting C S in the air is incredibly easy to combo leading into incredible damage with a low scaling high damage starter.

Video for further information/application

[media=youtube]peEK6gjkqr0[/media]

Doing it wrong:

  1. You do a super jump attack. If you either incorrectly execute the burn kick section of the motion, or more likely wait too long after inputting the motion to press the button you’ll get a jump/super jump attack. In most cases it is because you didn’t complete the :d::db::b: motion before you hit :uf:

  2. You do a normal jump forward burning kick. This is because your motion doesn’t get the super jump momentum. It is not necessarily a bad thing but you won’t get the same momentum you get when you do the super jump. This happens when there is too large of a gap between the :d::db: section of your input and the :uf:.

  3. You do a vertical jump or backwards jump burning kick feint. This often happens when instead of going straight from :b: to :uf: your stick rolls to either :ub: or :u: position first.

  4. You do an EX Burning kick. If you try and do the feint too quickly then instead of getting a feint EX burn kick comes out. Make sure to have enough of a gap between your :atk: button and :s:.

  5. You do a Grounded Burning kick feint. This happens when you press the button during the pre-jump frames and therefor do not go into super jump state, wait slightly longer before pressing the :atk: to get in the air.

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Reserved Slot.

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Reserved Slot Last one.

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This is an awesome thread, if you want me to elaborate on any specific lab findings for things I’m always happy to contribute to your awesome posts! ^.^

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If you want to start posting anything go right on ahead. I’ll just place/change the information up the respective category. It will not be a one man deems all type thing. I will really want to get everyone’s inputs/findings and place all the good info up there.

I’ll slowly be placing information in each post when I get the chance. hopefully looking at adding everyday.

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The Viper Ball
Burn kicks and burn kick feints akin to Street Fighter inherit the momentum Viper has when she starts the BKF, because of this you can have very fast close to the ground motion off of super jump forward instant burn kick feint AKA the Viper Ball.

The Viper ball is very simple 2149~A/B/C/S~S With this Viper essentially gets a KoF hop/super hop with a ridiculously useful horizontal arc, with this from an incredibly far distance away you can hit double to triple overheads very quickly and more importantly if you time it right it comes out faster than her trijump by a very significant margin. It’s very close in speed to her 28, ADF, A except horizontal instead of vertical. Thanks to its arc hitting C S in the air is incredibly easy to combo leading into incredible damage with a low scaling high damage starter.

Video for further information/application
[media=youtube]peEK6gjkqr0[/media]

Common errors and causes

Super Jump Attack
If you either incorrectly execute the burn kick section of the motion, or more likely wait too long after inputting the motion to press the button you’ll get a jump/super jump attack.

Normal Jump Burn Kick Feint
This doesn’t get the super jump momentum and is less desirable because of it. This happens when there is too large of a gap between the 21 section of your input and the 9.

**Vertical/Back Jump Burn Kick Feint **
This again ruins the momentum and is less desirable, this often happens when instead of going straight from 4 to 9 your stick rolls through the 8 position first.

EX Burn Kick
If you feint too quickly then instead of getting a feint EX burn kick comes out. Make sure to have enough of a gap between your first button and S.

Grounded Burn Kick Feint
This happens when you press the button during the pre-jump frames and therefor do not go into super jump state, wait slightly longer before pressing the buttons for better results.

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Maybe you should mention that the Viper Ball is like SF4 Cammy’s divekick buffer, Chrisis. At least that’s the way that I look at it. I approach it the same except with Cammy you leave time to be in neutral, but with Viper I speed through it and it shows results :stuck_out_tongue:

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It’s the same motion, but the finnickiness of the feint and when to press buttons is different from Cammy’s buffer window in IV. :frowning: Will you be making it to Starbase tonight? :smiley:

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Yeah if you know cammy’s dive kick you will still have trouble. I use to play her a lot and the window on it just seems shorter for the jump. I dont know lol. I was playing someone today and I got it once out of like 20 times which is very unusual for me. I kept jumping in the air being a scrub and doing instant kicks half/full screen. :frowning:

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What stream runs the Starbase Chrisis?

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Oh Chrisis I don’t know if you will be around before Starbase tonight but maybe you want to try an FADC with your seismo cancels when you get to practice that is.

I know you were talking about doing assists between seismo’s well i figured out a way through messing around with Killey’s FADC shenannigans (sp?) its different to do seismo but im sure someone could get the hang of it.

:dp:+:atk::d::u:+:l::s:~:m::h:+:a1:~:dp::atk:

Basically what happens here is you start a focus attack where you can easily pull out an assist, dash foward and do another seismo.

This is the way I do it because it makes it much easier on the default controls. Just flatten out your fingers and almost plink the seismo and dash. Don’t know if it will work for you guys who do the Street fighter like joystick setup

:l: :m: :h:
:s: :a1: :a2:

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Oo, that sounds particularly much spiffier and easier to do, I’ll need to lab that for sure! :smiley:

As for the stream, Starbase is streamed by iplaywinner iplaywinner on Justin.tv It starts at 9PM PST (-8 from GMT, around 8 hours and 40 minutes from now)

That focus set up may be useful in general, also you can summon assists while in focus stance so the A1 can go at the beginning segment with the A+S! :smiley:

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Yup. I’m starting to use it to ground opponents midscreen. Dash up and do 2B since most of the time they would think air dash afterwards. And I’ve tested it you can use it as a frame trap from up close. Use it to setup a throw ect.

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No starbase for me. Haven’t played Marvel in a long time and don’t plan to for awhile. Not until my finals are thru

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Good luck on finals K-beast! :smiley: