Wishful thinking changes

For kicks, what are some serious suggestions for improvements/nerfs that would be appropriate for Hawk? As much as I’d like to see Hawk on a more even field with the rest of the characters I can’t think of something even minor that would help. Sometimes as much as I want to say “Fix Hawk!” nothing really stands out. It might upset the balance too much. Ah, how about a shorter startup on CS?

Shorter startup on DP and Ultra 2
Ultra 2 hits backdashes.
Spire is dp motion with kick
Close strong doesnt whiff on small characters crouching.
Can combo into spire off lights OR can combo into sweep off COUNTERHIT jabs. ( i get a fucking SHIT ton of CH jabs cause people holding up when theyre getting pressured)

DP with kicks on condor spire. That alone would make me so happy.

Better hitbox on U2 would be nice as well, I’m okay at using it, but I still whiff it more often than I feel I should. If it caught more back jumps basically. But that is my fault. I should be backing them into a corner so that no matter which way they jump I catch them.

2-hit Thrust Peak.

  • nevermind…thinking of wrong move*
    Isn’t EX 2 hit?

Thrust Peak is DF+LP. The possibilities of mixups and up close pressure if this was 2 hit would be mind-boggling.

Condor Dive from jump backs! Would make this move much more effective for mixups and counter abilities, as well as messing with spacing.

As already said - Spire DP and kicks would be much more intuitive and easier to combo into (and option select).

U2 has 2 options - anti air with PPP (Tomahawk Ultra) and anti fireball/ground punisher with KKK (Spire Ultra) - reduce damage so its not overpowered, but more versatile. Not comboable though as that would be retarded. Anti airs are not actually Hawks biggest issue, but fireballs are a pain. It might be pushing it, but two qtr circles forward would be way more intuitive too and more suited to a reaction based Ultra.

Condor Dive executed like Cammy dive kick (qtr circle) for better instant dive instead of waiting to reach a certain height (press the button a fraction too soon now and you get jump HP). Don’t change the speed, but execution would be more accurate this way.

Oops, I was thinking DP.

Pretty much everything he said. Though I would add faster grabs or a couple frames of invincibilty to the non-EX M.Typhoon’s, atleast the HP version, whatever it is ‘Gief has on his SPD grabs that keeps them from getting interrupted. So friggin’ stupid to set someone up for it, do the motion and see Hawk’s arms moving for the grab, and then have it casually interrupted by a simple jab or something. Gief doesn’t have that problem, why should Hawk?

I’d also like to the see Hawk’s bounce back distance after a HP Typhoon reduced, half screen maybe. There’s just no reason for him to jump back to the other side of damn screen after hitting it. Totally destroy’s his pressure game and is why it’s not favored for use.

Hawk’s MT has the same startup as gief’s SPDs, just less range. If you visually see them get “stuffed” then odds are you’re just missing them because of poor spacing or mistiming tick throws.

HP MT is purely for damage. If you want to do more than Hawk’s lp MT but still have have some threat of pressure then just use the MP version, since it leaves you enough time to dive close to them and be at advantage/neutral.

And I think that idea with PPP\KKK ultras nice too.

nice job by creating a thread that’s just gonna depress people about what hawk doesn’t have

Stop complaining because youre a terrible online player.

respect the land

i just find this thread a little funny is all
a list of hopeful changes that will never happen
but people hope they will anyways

t.hawk’s always been bottom of the barrel
you can’t change that

he’ll always have a hard time against half of the cast

the only changes i would make would be on his focus attack being a little faster and his condor dive being like it was in SSF2 HDR
the suggestion to make U2 like sakura’s U2 with the two options sounds like a pretty good idea through
makes the ultra much more useful in different situations other then straight up in the air

a few more frames of invincibility on ex dp would be nice, but mostly, more versatility on his ultra 2 would make it much more viable. it should have ways of being comboed into such as

dp fadc-able into ultra 2

ultra 2 combos from ex condor spire. why does ex dp combo from this but not his ultra?

probably should nerf dmg on ultra 2 to around 400 from 450 to compensate for ways you can combo into it

lastly, ultra 2 should hit ground targets as well similar to his regular dp

I like your thinking. The DP FADC is never going to happen though. With his Ultra 1 FADC’able DP’s would be too good - DP FADC back Ultra 1 would happen very quickly and be very strong as a setup - let alone DP FADC SPD. I’ve said it before, but they have done it on purpose that you can have a DP to get out of tight spots, but to be 100% safe you need to use EX and burn 2 bars to stay safe - if the EX DP is blocked you then have to use EX dive to get safe.

Just out of interest, what is the difference between his Dive in HDR compared to SSF4? I never played HDR, but people seem to think it was better in HDR? His Dive in SSF4 IMO is best used as a mix up tool as opposed to a pure attacking weapon. Sure it gives you some simple jump in mix ups, but to cover ground quickly and my personal fav, bait normals with whiffed dive and EX SPD/Super/Ultra, it seems to be most useful.

Something I hope to give feedback in the lab on soon, is air to air lp xx Dive, mix up options and which characters and situations are most beneficial - just started a new job, so time in the lab has been limited of late (hence no more OS finds…but I have all weekend for that and this). I want to see how much prioirty the lp has on the cast, because the cross under Dive after an air to air is really nasty. Plus there might be something in the few recovery frames from the landing that works to Hawks advantage with SPDs (he always lands first and should recover first).

@ Crimson Cobra - bottom of the barrel is a little OTT, but Hawk is not God tier either. When I see guys like Starnab and Inthul doing what they do with Fei, who is considered just above Dan tier (I disagree, but that is where he always seems to be on tier lists), then I think in the right hands, with the right practice and match up knowledge, Hawk can and could be a wrecking ball! The one thing I have found in the 2-3 weeks since I started using Hawk is I feel happily competitive with him so early in my time with him. I am very rarely getting blown away when I use him (yes he has lots of health), but I was not winning as often with Honda after 2-3 weeks and he has a load of health too. Hawk is not the fastest either, but I am actually enjoying playing a character without the ties of charging! His premise is solid - Damaging Ultra, good normals, tank character with a DP, can cover ground really quickly (Dive and Spire) and does good damage with or without SPD. There is no reason he cannot at least be competitive.

In the other SF games with Hawk, you can do CD while jumping backwards. That would definitely be a game changer here.

However you cant do them at any point in your jump like you can in SF4 which is pretty big.

Tamana - in HDR hawks dive doesnt bounce back at all leaving him kind of safe. he can be hit if he hits too high still and he will land on A LOT of sonic booms and fireballs. Its better in some matchups (dictator, claw, and sim definitely) while the knockdown dive is better in almost all of his other ones (honda, guile, ryu, ken).

Yes you can do them from any point in the jump…this video clearly shows that. And, from the right distance you can tick into a MT/Super with the dive.