Bryheem and Julian are coming.
I’m bored so I’ll shed some light on this process Since this is I think the 4th time tournaments have started back up since I have been running or help with them.
Anything for less than 0.50
Players - win you can spend less money
Arcade - Loss. Do you know how many game are here that aren’t in cabinets right now Putting any game that people will play for 50 cents = more money unless the game in question gets over twice as many plays (which it won’t).
Taking money from the pot to cover free play
Here is the math on a 10 person tournament The MINIMUM the arcade would make is everyone paid for their games is $30 if all matches were won 2-0 or 3-0. Now in a 10 person tournament with a $3 entry fee (LU arcana) the entire pot was $30. Even with a $5 entry fee that only leaves $20 and $30 is only the minimum the arcade would make.
**Cover charge to cover free play **
Arcade - Win/lose The cover can cover the money lost from free play however, it does discourage anyone without a chance from entering. With a $10 cover and a Five dollar entry it now costs a local newcomer $15 to lose two matches in a row and be out of the tournament. If it was only $5 and pay to play it would only cost them $7.00 covers discourage new locals from getting into tournaments and new locals are far better business than out of towners.
Players - Win/lose it depends on how far you get in the tournament.
later start time
This one is huge because the Friday and Saturday account for much more than the rest of the week. So when tournaments start running later you run into two major problems even if the players are paying for their games.
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People who didn’t enter the tournament still can’t play the games they came to play. When random regular A come to spend his usual chunk of change on a machine and he can’t because there is a tournament going on they on occasion get mad and blame the arcade. At this point the arcade is losing a regular source of business to accommodate a group of people who are here once ever few months. (I have seen this happen many times)
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Crowds from the tournament disrupt the mormal flow of the weekend crowd. People get even more upset when the crowds from the tournament choke up the walkway beteen the games forcing them to either push there way through or walk all the way around. Parents come in with their kids take a look at the crowd and walk right back out. not good for the arcade.
Players - Win
Arcade - lose
The two proposed solutions to the start time/ weekend crowd conflict issue
These two always come up eventually
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Starting tournaments so that they END by 1:00. - Noone ever shows. Philly players never make it out and out of towners have serious trouble getting hear that early.
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Running tournaments in the middle of the week. Tuesday or wednesday night tournaments. Do I even need to explain this one? most of you are from out of town.
Arcade - has nothing to lose from it
Players - Lose
In the end there has to be a balance. Philly has a small scene right now so we need people from other places to come out to get things going. At the same time when you start pissing off people who come in regularly to please people who come a handful of times a year its going to hurt your business. In this latest reincarnation of tournaments in Philly I seem to be holding the position of the moderate with Dawain on one side and Bill on the other. So this is just a reminder that this thing succeeding benefits everyone but pushing too hard to either side WILL cause this thing to fall apart.
yes i see your point its tough to win in any of the aforementioned scenarios. one solution to your one point about regulars showing up while a tourney is going on and they want to play the game allow them to enter the tourney if they so choose to do so. throw them into the losers bracket ( if they are late) and have them pay half the entry fee if they want to enter it.
Also if you charge .25 per game and the game goes 2-0 then the arcade made $1. in that one set.
Set it up so that it each player has to pay for EVERY game they play, win or lose. and if its .50 per game the cade would make $3 ( from both players combined)if it went 2-1. along with an entry fee of $3 per entrant. A person who is out in 2 rds will only pay $5 for everything. but a person who goes to the finals could end up paying over $15 in a 16 player tourney equating to OVER $120 in pool money if every game goes 2-0. Have the arcade keep a % of each pot. lets say you keep $20 for the arcade you still can give out $70-$20-$10 to the winners. or stretch it to 4 places…$65-20-10-5 still profitable for everyone. The only loser here is the guy who goes far into the tourney and does not place in the money. Like a 5th place finisher, especially if you played in 3 tourneys and got 5th place in all three. thats a hefty hit on the wallet. you can make things very attractive with this method by having more money places. with $100 you could go as far as 6 places. its a nice feeling to take home some cash how ever small it may be. Remember this is just a weekly, not a major tourney. $50-25-10-7-5-3.
While your first theory is good here is how it works out, when it has been tried.
- Non tournament regulars aren’t used to waiting to play, not in the tournament sense of 30 minutes to an hour. Add that on to the fact that you are now adding spots into the loser bracket that aren’t supposed to be there, which becomes a very big issue when one of those late comer entrants starts winning and knocking people, who showed up on time, out of the tournament. Also add in the fact that if the person shows up after the first round of losers they just placed better than someone who lost first round just by showing up late. I used to get people trying to enter tournaments in the losers bracket when there are only four or five people left in the tournament all the time.
As for the second Idea I’m sure most of you know gamers come from all different types of financial situations, some people can afford to pay a $10 or $20 cover, but some can’t. I doubt anyone here has made it this far without seeing someone make it farther in a tournament than their funds would allow to the point where they are borrowing 50 cents from someone each game. Seeing people drop out of a tournament they could win because it cost too much to keep playing sort of sucks.
i really don’t see how they are really losing buisness…
everytime im up there… most of time it’s me playing and maybe a few others that incapacitate marvel…and maybe some here or there give and take…i think i at most prolly spend alot there (at least 10 when nobody is there…at least 30-40 when i get comp)
and i see alot of they buissness is pool… so i don’t see what the problem with the arcade losing money (except the freeplay part)… even weekends… it’s really only filled with people who really don’t play any games…you should really cater to those WHO ARE WILLING to spend on that arcade… and not loligag around and shit… i know when im there… i spend my money to help out the arcade… now who do you want more… a guy who’s going to spend when he’s there…or 10-15 people who only spend once and while…( i see to often at that arcade…) if i saw alot of people sitting around playing those games… then i would believe that arguement eric… but dog i never see it…except those once and awhile execeptions…
now as far as the tourney… i understand the .50 cent and shit…and would save locals some money… but as for the crowd… about 75% muthafuckas ain’t playing games… for at least once a month … they deal with it… and most of the time it’s just people hanging out with boys not playing anything… or it’s just girls trying to see they man (what is this…a club?) i don’t mind it so much… so long as they putting in that money… and locals not entering tourneys? im sorry… but i’ve tried time and time again (you seen me eric) give tips and tips when they asked or they seem confused… and they just too lazy and scared to take they shit to the next level… and marvel is the exception because it’s something they use too… it’s the only game they hard in… and they satisfied with that…but even then they won’t enter… i guarentee if sanford enters or brandon enters (even you eric)… they’ll back out quick…so i don’t want to hear this… “YOU SHOULD HELP THE LOCALS”… i know i’ve been helping these “locals” out…honestly i feel im more local than the locals themselves ( i live in DELAWARE)…
im sorry for that rant… but damn sometimes outside influences do help. i want to help the arcade out as well… that’s why i put in my money… the locals(the few the put in money constantly) put moeny in…but telling me that tourneys are hurting locals… im not buying that…stop being scared and just enter…
I didn’t factor the people who aren’t playing into the equation. I was only talking about people who come to the arcade intending to spend money on a particular game and can’t because there is a tournament that they are either too late for or don’t want to enter.
Also skill isn’t neccessary, Parents come in all the time with a wad of cash and 5 kids who don’t really care what they play or know how to play. And I have seen on multiple occasions parents who generally spend $100+ in here see a large crowd and turn around and walk back out the door.
Also for the point of your argument you have to pick which group you are in, because you are clearly a regular here even if you do live in Delaware, so I’m not counting you in the tournament group. People like you are the ones we are trying not to piss off. Imagine taking that trip from Delaware just to play arcana and melty or driving an hour like venom2978 only to find both machines out of order. Thats what the tournaments do to people who don’t want to or can’t enter but still want to play.
i understand the kids and parents thing… but let’s put this into perspective…
you got us fg players (intown and out of town)…kids and parents…the pool players… even then… i still see more people not playing then playing…
now there is pay to play and im sure that’s fine… then the outstate and locals are paying… they are paying to play the game… kids and parents do they thing… i see parents sometimes playing fighting games with kids… but most of the time it’s skeeball, basketball, air hockey (the only thing that has some kind of conflict of intrest), and the racing games in the front…but even then were only counting about maybe 50- 65% of the pop that’s playing…alot times i swear i don’t see the other 35% doing anything but watching or standing around…but i dunno… maybe i have to see the real picture or sumthin… cuse i honest to god dont see it…
i appreciate the arcade being on top of things… but i swear people don’t show the appreciation…im glad that you feel im a local… but im refering to those in the arcade that live in the philly area… who don’t show it…sure im local… but damn it only takes five min to get there…while spend my time on trains and shit just to see the people and games i would like to play…
also any other mms? arcana, melty, tekken?
you pretty much right but you have to do the math on it to see the other part.
You usually spend around $20 everytime you come in. Now we have a tournament and the arcade makes good money that one day, but you got pissed off because you couldn’t play your games that day (assume you aren’t a tournament player) and you decide Fuck this arcade, I not coming back.
The arcade makes more money that one day but we actually lose money overall, because everytime you don’t come back when you would have We lose $20. If you only come once a week we still lose $80 each month by you deciding not to come back anymore. Thats why not pissing of regular customers is so important. Losing one good customer can cost you way more money than a tournament can make you.
See now what I don’t understand is, if a person just so happens to come in and find a tournament running, and they can’t enter or play so they say “fuck this tourney”, whats to stop this person from saying the same thing from something similar? “This crowds too big on Saturday nights and it takes me forever to finally get my turn, fuck this arcade.” “This guy is way too good and I can’t even get a hit out, fuck this arcade.” “I hate the people who walk around the arcade, fuck this arcade.”
I don’t even find this situation to be realistic, I mean where are they gonna go play their games at? Dave & Busters? I don’t think they have Melty Blood or a working T5DR there, and really if they came all the way out to play a FG, best believe they’re gonna want to play their game. I can understand a Mom taking her kids to an arcade and leaving because of big crowds, but is that really SRK’s fault. These guys are paying money to play games, just like that mother would. If you’re saying that this mother will NEVER come back to that arcade EVER again because theres one day that this arcade is crowded as hell, you obviously haven’t had a mother figure around you. They’ll just come back another day when it isn’t so crowded, thats the way a Mom works. You can’t even use the “this guy’ll never come back to this arcade to play games because there was a tournament going on.” You won’t find most of the FGs that we run tourneys on ANYWHERE in the area, and any other game UP has won’t definitely get a lot of money spent on. Ever see somebody throw $20 into Ghost Squad? I haven’t either.
The people who attend this tourney are customers as well, and although we shouldn’t cater to every single need they have(thats what gets a arcade closed down), you can’t also say they’re subject to the arcade losing money. The MvC2 people’ll keep coming, who the hell is running a RF2 tourney or even playing the game(not to mention you wont find the game anywhere else), arcana players won’t find the game anywhere else, melty players won’t find the game anywhere else, 3s players aren’t usually serious about the game(or even coming out to play just that one game), T5DR you probably won’t find anywhere else(and the players suffer from MvC2 syndrome). Even if we weren’t running tournaments, if SRK just came down for a casual day for some games with cool friends. Okay so this guy comes in with a wad of cash, loses to Sp00ky in Melty, and decides “fuck this arcade.” Is it SRK’s fault for that? I guess we should never come in to play casuals, because we’ll discourage people from coming back for chance of getting raped.
I don’t see where you’re going with this
Glad your getting the point since I’m doing most of this for your benefit. If you want tournaments you are going to run into this stuff so I decided to let you know about it before it popped up “out of nowhere”. I had to go through all of these objections in order to hold tournaments and they will probably happen again. I’m not really against you on this you just need to understand the other side of this, just like I have had to argue the gamers side of this to Bill. Why tournaments shouldn’t be on tuesdays, why sticks need to be replaced when they don’t appear to be broken during test mode, Why you should give a damn about people who only come here twice a year.
ALL of the examples I have used so far are real. All of them have happened here most of them more than once.
-Yes I have seen someone throw 20 dollars into ghost squad.
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People leaving because they can’t win is the problem with the whole arcade fighting game business, so that one is not a good argument.
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The difference between a tournament and a crowded Saturday is that you can still play your game even if its crowded( the last melty tournament was a couple of hours, thats a long time to wait to play a game). Also during tournaments the crowd is focused in a very small area. Making it extremely annoying for people trying to pass by. Even on a Saturday you only have to move through a fe people at a time, not a crowd of 15
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The crowd aren’t SRK’s fault, its just comes with the tournament, If no one from SRK came and there was still 20 blocking off the walkway it would be the same problem.
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Easter is the busiest day of the year here, do you know how many people tell me very seriously each easter that they are NEVER COMING BACK TO THIS Fing ARCADE EVER AGAIN, because of the crowd.
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So yes we do lose money all the time to people who say I can’t beat this guy so fuck this arcade and people who say its too damn crowded in here so fuck this arcade. Even if there were no tournaments both of those would still be the case.
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The fact that you think they will come back on a day when its not that crowded shows that you haven’t met enough peoples mothers.I’m at that ticket counter every weekend, most of the moms in here are pissed off and can’t wait to leave.
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The people who come aren’t the reason we lose money the sitaution is, as well as the layout of the arcade because its narrow and crowds really fuck up the flow of things.
That’s fine that you have a business overlook on everything, but we’re on SRK in a tournament thread right now, and to put it frankly, it’s out of place. If you want to charge us $30 for walking in the door as compensation for taking away some bus full of high schoolers who happened to come back and want to play, then you go ahead and do that, but don’t go treating us like we’re a problem or that we don’t understand such things.
I mean honestly, do you have any idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to get to TGA without a car? I wake up at 4:30am on the Saturday of the tournament, go through 4 trains, a 4 1/2 hour bus ride, and 45 minute car ride, and if all goes well, I’ll be at TGA by 2pm. Then I pay the entry fee, then tournament fee, then food and drink, then the money to get back. All in all it’s $100 out of my pocket easy just to get there.
But that’s never been a bother to me [to have to pay] because it’s worth it. They’re out in the middle of fucking nowhere, and I can’t even fathom how that guy stays in business, but Andy’s never once come out and said:
“You know what, you guys are less important then the random people we get a few times a week.”
What, suddenly we’re not regulars? Come on now. It cost me $250 last time (thanks to the hotel), but shit I’ll do it again and again and again.
Just don’t make me think I’m in the wrong for doing it.
I mean I know what you’re getting at, and if you have to increase anything, in all honesty I say just do it without the need to tell us. I promise you we’ll keep coming, we’d be complete idiots not to.
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hey i dont know about any1 else but i’m really psyched 4 this tournament. i haven’t played in a tournament since like 1995, and that was for killer instinct arcade. i wish it were tomorrow. oh well. i’ll probly get my ass beat in arcana and melty, but it’s all good. i’m thinkin of doin super turbo and guilty gear too. and whatever it costs to join is fine by me
You are not the problem and I’m not trying to say you are its a problem with the layout of the arcade really, Easter causes the exact same problem.
It is awesome that you go out to TGA and It was awesome that you came here. I personally respect you going out that far and putting that much money out when the pots that you and Ken won didn’t even cover the hotel room.
I’m not even for charging the cover for normal tournaments I’m posting options and listing the pros and cons so that the solution that is picked isn’t one that was known would fail.
The reason I posted this now is because like I said before this IS going to come up at some point and Hal should be prepared for it since he is the one pushing this cause right now.
I’m sitting this one out, but I do still want everything to work out thats why I’m doing this. Instead of the tournaments leading to crowds --> which lead to disruption --> which leads to someone trying to get Hal to move tournaments to a random weekday. I’m hoping that knowing what will happen beforehand will help him prevent that from happening.
Thats why I have been using issues from past tournaments as examples.
P.S. Please change the name of these Philly monthly’s. This name just isn’t good at all.
No.
And why is there bitching about how an arcade is run in a tourney thread? Where’s the hype? Oh, and fuck scrubs. If they see the person is good, then why keep playing?
Count me in for ST.
Anyone know if this is walking distance from 30th street Septa station? I am probably going to be taking the train on up.
what time will you be getting off the train? its very close to the university city train station. but 30th st and market is over 10 blocks away since the arcade is at 40th and spruce you will have to go 10 blocks up and a few blocks over… i might be able to grab you at the station, if i know what time you will be getting off the train.
Er, I don’t know. Apparently there’s some business about the name needing to be changed… But I’m not going to state why: It’s not my place to. And yeah “Will Smiths fresh Prince Memorial” Wasn’t meant to be a permament title, at least when I spoke with Hal, the idea was a random name every week. I guess if we want to be ‘official’ it should be mad ea bit more epic. So I see it from both sides, really… The name is crazy awesome but at the same time, not really professional sounding. Call me what you want, but if someone in Cali came up with a tourny named “Bob Sagats Family House Shoryuken.” (… Actually that’s not a bad name.) I probably wouldn’t come, for fear that the tourny was one big joke. Course, tournys are meant to be fun too. I just wouldn’t want to spend $300+ on a trip that was going to be non-epic. But then aagain there’s way too many epic tourny names out there, so the idea is original?
Who knows, I’ll come either to UP either way. It’s like RIGHT THERE for me.You can name it Steve Stegal’s Daycare Super Battle Extreme circumcision and I’ll show up.
Hey lil E aka Blackshinobi, double check those sticks on arcana heart. Sometimes when u hit the B button people would get burst (including myself). also random homings
ST:
JWong, Deathscythe, nh2
vs.
Julien, Ehonda, jms
Elimination style. $10 a head. What’s up?