Super was shit and single-handedly destroyed my interest in SF4 as a series. AE is a hell of a lot better. I would much rather fight the ‘unbalanced’ top tier of AE than the down-back bullshittery of Super.
Fuck Super. It can rot… AE is a lot more fun to play and watch.
Anyone who complains that Super was “down-back bullshit” has no concept of safe rushdown. Why is it that Tokido and Kindevu were so successful in Super? Why were Abel, Bison, Cammy, and Rufus some of the most seen characters at NA majors? It’s because rushdown was very viable in Super. The game was not down-back intensive OR rushdown intensive, it was balanced for all play styles. That is something that cannot be said about AE.
What happens when down back meets rushdown?
AE = ass
Most top players agree, only people that don’t are the ones that don’t actually compete and travel to tournaments.
Switching to Super will not affect that player base (maybe they wouldn’t watch the stream, but w/e, who the fuck cares about stream monsters anyways?)
AE reduced the amount of competent characters to around 10 (down from like 20-25 from Super). AE also reduced the skill level required to be competitive, aka any average Yun can random out players alot better than him.
W/e, tournament players are going to keep competing on whatever game is featured, it would just be a lot funner for the players to compete in a game that actually took skill and thought instead of a game where mindless risks and guesses are dominant. We already have MvC3 and 3s to take that role, we don’t need Street Fighter to be dumbed down in such a way.
I would compete in either game, Super would just be a lot funner and more fair.
I still can’t see why this isn’t just a ban Yun thread.
stream monsters are why sponsors are willing to give money to tournaments, which in turn makes money for the pot monsters with pot bonuses and reduced costs and possibly free swag/food/drink/etc.
ads on the stream let the organizers recoup their costs without having to charge crazy high venue fees
Catering to people watching the streams means money and increased exposure. Both of those are good.
It isn’t?
lets play MvC3
Agree with this. Except the bolded.
Hold dat. After EVO I will requote this post if there are plenty of Yun mirrors. Laugh.
Woah, that’s not a sweeping generalization at all.
fixed that for you, captn salty
you and whatever else top players in dislike should quit AE. im sure the scene can survive at this point with or without you.
marvel sucks dick, and people continue to play it, so…
It’s true, alot of top players have stated that they liked Super more, but then alot of other top players have said the opposite. Floe, Justin Wong, Flash Metroid, just to name a few. The game is divisive among the elite players just like it is here on SRK.
Meh, AE just came out. Eventually people will stop complaining like 4 year olds and just play the game
As a stream monster who sucks at street fighter, I’d like to call out everybody who assumes that AE is more entertaining for spectators. There’s nothing entertaining about watching twins rape characters, there’s nothing entertaining about taking a viable cast of 20+ characters in a zoning based game and turning it into a viable cast of 4 + a few stragglers in a game where the characters will be in each others’ faces 90% of the time. This isn’t Michael Bay Fighter 4, but the way people are talking about stream monsters as if they would rather see Daigo’s Yun over Daigo’s Ryu is very presumptuous.
Although to be fair, I’m the guy who loves watching Kevin vs Sanford at Guard Crush while everybody else is blathering about spamming fireballs, so maybe I’m in the minority.
I play Gen, and if I’m having serious problems for winning mediocre Yun players (in the end I usually win, but…), I can’t imagine the day I fight a good one.
I seriously think there’s nothing Gen can do to win him. I think that particular matchup is 7-3 at best. Yang is giving me less problems, but still too hard to climb for the kind of players I found online. Yang matchup 6.5-3.5. Oh, and Fei is another 7-3, this time FOR SURE.
Why they thought making Yun, Yang and Fei so powerful would make the game more interesting, twisting it into Super Hong Kong Fighter IV, is only a thing I can wonder about.
Mirror matches are almost always silly. At least in Yun mirrors, stuff happens and they end pretty fast. I’d rather watch a Yun mirror than a Guile or Honda mirror, wouldn’t you?
There will assuredly be Yun or Yang mirrors at EVO. I’m not sure what requoting this later will prove.
Also, with only a few exceptions (typically charge characters who had winning matchups against Fei and still do pretty well in AE), I think the Fei fight is almost the same in Super as it is in AE. Going back to Super will not make that match easier for you, more than likely. Fei was always this good, don’t kid yourselves. Meanwhile, most characters (Gen especially) got significant buffs to deal with the new (ie, the old) Fei and the twins.
Not everyone will be a tournament-winning twins player. There is still lots and lots of non-twins game to explore here. But of course, people like focusing on the negative, instead of doing what they can to win or enjoy what’s there.
If you claim to be a good player and you’re losing to “mediocre” twins players, maybe those players aren’t as mediocre as you think? Maybe you need to step your game up? Mediocre players are always beatable, regardless of the character they’re using.
Yun gets a lot of attention, but I think some should be given to Fei. Let’s not forget that in those tier lists from Arcadia, Fei, Yun, and Yang are all S Tier, not JUST the twins.
And did anyone notice that Gamerbee picked Fei to counter a twin at CEO?
as a fellow gen player, i disagree with you completely. the fei matchup didnt even change. fei didnt get buffed in any key area that would have anything to do with gen. it got easier if anything considering gens damage/meter buffs. not to mention his normals are better
and im not going to say gen wins the yun/yang matchups, but he does have the piss easy unblockable on both of them. that alone would keep it away from 7-3
Gen actually has an unblockable against them.
IMO, Yang is A Tier, not S Tier. Yun and Fei are definitely the best two, but dunno who’s better.
I think this is really the heart of the matter.
People called SF4 “defensive”. A lot of players used the term “defensive” negatively, but I like this style of play. Since mistakes were punished severely in that game, people were very careful about their offense. We had to be. It lead to a more calculated, patient offense. You had to work hard to create your opening, and then make sure you took off as much as you could when/if you got it. When you saw one player rushdown/dominate the other, it was because he really got inside the other guy’s head.
Starting with the damage adjustments made in Super and then continuing on with the AE adjustments, the game has made a shift from calculated offense to a more free offense. Attacks have become safer, mistakes aren’t punished nearly as severely, and defensive options have been made worse or weaker. On the CEO stream, Sabin said that the name of the game in AE is “Just do it. Just throw it out there and see what happens.” I kind of agree with this statement. And the twins (and to some degree Fei Long) are sort of an embodiment of this playstyle. Yun and Yang can blow you up if you try to press any buttons, or even if you don’t. As many in this thread have said, the best way to counter that is to take the fight to them instead. That’s not a bad idea, and that particular strategy existed even in SF4/SSF4 matchups - Chun vs Abel comes to mind. But whereas it was a particular strategy in certain matchups before, now it seems to have become the main theory of the game.
Look at the previous dive kick/rushdown king, Rufus. Rufus has a very strong offense - ways to blow up crouch tech, pressure strings, damaging combos, many ways to land ultra. Despite all these great tools, Rufus still had to be smart about his offense. Good Rufus players didn’t just charge in and start attacking until they opened you up - they had to create their opportunities for offense and even once they got in, attack smartly. Compare that to the twins, who can not only get in very easily, but just keep attacking until something good happens in their favor. That’s obviously a very general and broad-reaching statement, but its easy to see that despite being the same type of character, the way Rufus and the twins carried out their offense is quite different.
It’s not just about the twins. Things like the nerf to Rose’s U2 startup and even Honda’s headbutt nerf…whereas before these were defensive options you had to respect, now we have the opportunity to just try and attack. Why not? We may get a trade, or even flat-out beat it. “Just do it.”
For people who disliked the “defensive” nature of the series up until now, they may welcome the more offense-oriented AE with open arms. This is all largely personal preference. But where people who didn’t like the game before maybe have warmed to it, those who did are left feeling out in the cold.