Why no love for the SFI cast - the ones that started it all?

I remember before SSFIV or possibly AE was in development, Ono said they would consider getting in some SFI characters, but nothing came of it. Why not do that now and add some awesome designs like Geki, Retsu and Lee in the game?

I second that,

In fact after damn near 30 yrs of keeping Capcom alive WE should be given the best game possible to play, ALL characters.

Definitely down with the Fighting Street cast from the original SF1!

Because they’re generic as fuck and have been done to death at this point. Let’s see some new blood.

ALL characters would be a bit… well… retarded. There is 80+ SF characters, that would be a balancing nightmare as well as have a ton of overlap in playstyles.

To an extent I agree but they could be expanded on a bit to make them less generic.

A lot of the SF1 cast actually HAS gotten some love! Gen, Adon, and Sagat all originate in SF1 and have appeared in later games including SF4. Eagle was in CvS2 and I’d love to see him make a comeback. Birdie I could take or leave personally.

As for the main post, IIRC Lee is actually dead now. I could be mistaken on this but I’m pretty sure either he or Retsu died. I can’t remember which. Geki could certainly be developed more but his design is fairly generic as a very very basic ninja design. Mike could be brought back and emphasize a different style of boxing than Balrog or Dudley. Joe kind of overlaps with Cody, as a matter of fact Joe was originally going to be the criminal character in Alpha3 but they decided to change it to Cody. I dunno why, maybe because of Alpha already having so many Final Fight ties it made sense to bring Cody back.

Really I feel they got the most interesting designs from SF1 already put into later games with Birdie, Eagle, Gen, Adon, Sagat all making later appearances and Cody basically replacing Joe. If they brought Joe or Mike back they’d have to really tweak their moves and create an interesting new story for them. Retsu, Lee, and Geki are probably the weakest designs in terms of ability to expand on. Either in terms of how they fight or in terms of their character itself.

I really want Eagle to come back though.

Makoto’s design is pretty generic to me, but her playstyle makes up for that. How is Ibuki any less generic than Geki? And with the addition of alternate costumes, design doesn’t matter as much anymore. So, what I’m saying is, they should bring them back with awesome movesets. No one knows what they play like in SF1, so giving them whatever moves shouldn’t be a problem. It’ll feel like they created a brand new character, yet at the same time brought some veteran back.

Adon, Gen and Birdie at this point are considered Alpha stuff.
I will not be against any of them for SFV, all cool and unique characters

Even if i like the idea of a kickboxer (DeeJay kinda failed at being cool, Guile design was more about being a soldier) Joe is generic as fuck.
As kickboxer they can make so many tributes on real athletes: Schilt, Bonjasky, CroCop, Hoost, Petrosyan, Hunt… there is so much variety of “types” they can chose

Mike is generic as Joe and his design got absorbed by Balrog/Boxer. Next boxer in SFV will be Balrog, Dudley or New, sure as fuck not Mike

Lee’s design is solid but basically evolved into the more marketable Yun. With Chun already in and Yun avaible (and Gen, and Yang, and in some way Fei Long) i doubt in a small cast they will resurrect him as chinese kung fu dude

Geki, well fuck Geki. Even in the pic above they write it wrong lol.
Not that Geki is bad or without potential, but SF moved waaaaay past him creating Vega/Claw, a character quickly becomed very iconic, unique and that absolutely shit all over him as chara design/concept/fanbase
Give the slot to him instead Vega will be like drop Irina Shayk to fuck Stifler’s mom

Eagle and Retsu are probably the most unique, characterized and with potential SF1 characters.
Eagle design got later partially recycled to make Dudley but still got a very unique identity and fight style.
That escrima wannabe style definitely is both original/unique and at the same time fit very much with SF spirit
Plus if Dudley is’nt in (even if i hope they chose him for “the boxer” of SFV) the whole english gentleman thing give him more character

Retsu can be a little more generic, but if they keep the SF4 rule to keep designs simple in order to fit with classic SF2 aestethic, he is’nt that bad.
I’m all for more international cast as possible too, but at this point i got used to see japan (and murrica) get multiple characters.
If they done it right with a mix of Kenpo/Aikido/JuJitsu with and some old badass bastard aura it can work very well… kinda like a Gouken in eternal bad mood lol

Joe was supposed to be an full contact karate fighter I thought not a kick boxer. I could be wrong. I agree Adon, Gen, and Birdie are certainly more known for their Alpha roles because they weren’t playable in SF1 and frankly SF1 was kind of a flop to an extent, but they do still have their origins in SF1. But I can agree that they are perceived more as Alpha chars NOW.

I dunno, what’s really interesting about Retsu? He is just kind of a generic old dude.

According to wikipedia at least Eagle fights with what’s called “kali” sticks which I guess are a kind of escrima which can apparently vary alot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_sticks news to me.

Eagle’s design does certainly have some personality overlap with Dudley but the people they draw on are totally different. Eagle was based on a char from a Bruce Lee movie (can’t remember which one) while Dudley is based on an actual boxer. Both from england of course. I’d like to see them expand on Eagle’s history and personality, he is the first openly gay Street Fighter character.

You’re correct too Joe was probably based on Joe Lewis who was both a kickboxer (USA HW Champ) and karateka (world HW champion)

And yeah Eagle was definitely that dude

About Retsu to be honest he look boring and i can think fucktons of characters i will prefer i will like get before him (specially in the current small cast), i’m just saying that with Eagle is probably the only veteran that as design did’nt got absorbed by later designs or recycled in some form

ps/OT: about Dudley i don’t know who they used as reference… i have ever seen the chara design contrast with Balrog kinda like Tyson-Holyfield rivalry was promoted as bad dude vs gentleman
Another can be Lennox Lewis, who was english and had rivalry with Tyson too
Even tea cup pic lol


But he did’nt look like him, Evander a lil bit more as face, but i’m not even full convinced Dudley is supposed to be of african ethnicity

Due facial features, hair and chara design concept i ever seen him as descent from India, wich will make kinda sense givel the old school nostalgic english theme of his chara design (also that Freddie Mercury alt too, but may be a coincidence)

I kind of liked when they took inspiration from real world martial artists / actors / wrestlers / pop culture icons for there characters. Yeah it’s kind of cribbing a bit but I liked how they made them into their own thing too. That is more a discussion for the sf5 new comers thread though. Just reminded me of that since so many SF1 and SF2 chars drew inspiration from film and martial artists.

I hadn’t heard of the Joe to Joe Lewis connection but it’s pretty damn obvious now that you bring it to attention. I mean that picture is practically Joe’s outfit in SF

Only dif is that they changed the karate pants/belt into slacks and a normal belt but it’s the same colors and shirtless and everything else.

I wouldn’t mind Eagle at all. CvS2 Eagle I mean. his moveset was dope.

Of the ones who haven’t reappeared in Alpha/SF4:
-Eagle: Best choice by far
-Lee: Generic and lacking in creativity vs Yun/Yang
-Joe/Mike: Horribly generic and similar to characters we already have
-Geki: Outclassed by Ibuki/Vega.
-Retsu: If he didn’t make it into SF4 with the whole Gouken plotline, he’s never coming back. MAYBE in an Alpha 4.

I’m pretty sure they actually considered Retsu at some point for SF4 judging by the Decapre reveal trailer, but decided against it. Eagle’s problem is that his concept has to compete with Rolento for “stick-wielder”. If they tone down the Final Fight crossovers, his chances go up.

Gee, maybe because they’re boring, generic, stupid and ugly?

I can see how the stick wielder aspect could be an issue but Eagle AND Rolento were in CvS2 as well as Maki who wields tonfas. They have such completely different moves both in specials and normals and just how they play.

I think if they include Joe than they should evolve him to emphasize his personality which is more like Adon I think, overly cocky. They should also consider making Cody more like his Final Fight self which they were originally planning in SF4 from the developer interview on eventhubs I read IF they even include Cody and Joe together.

I expect that the Final Fight cast will be toned down a bit in SF5 though. I wouldn’t mind seeing a NEW final fight crossover character in and/or the return of Maki. Maybe Damnd or give Haggar his first shot in a SF game or maybe someone from the later final fight’s like Dean or Lucia or some other boss character like Retu (not to be confused with Retsu), Drake, or Stray.

But the main SF1 char I’m hoping for is Eagle to return from CvS2 style or a new update to Geki. Birdie would look pretty boss in the darker SF5 style but I was never a big fan of his playstyle.

I really would like to see CvS2 Eagle, that shit would be dope.

Dudley’s based on Chris Eubank, a British boxer from the 90’s. With an added Freddie Mercury 'tache:


I would imagine it’s their relative obscurity, and the fact that cooler characters exist.

Ibuki/Vega > Geki
Boxer > Mike
Guile/Charlie > Joe

And so on and so forth.

I never played any sf beyond SFIV, so as a not oldshcool hardcore player, I would love to see characters that made this game what it is

At some point Retsu was probably at least considered, this

is on the official SF 25th anniversary artbook, and was released before USF4 got announced (so Hugo and Helena inclusion still was’nt a thing)

I don’t understand why don’t they just turn Mike into Balrog. There’s no point in Mike being a different character.

Probably IT WAS the same dude, Mike Bison

Then they had to
"Capcom however, because of lawsuit issues, have been very insistent that Balrog and Mike were always meant to be two different characters. On 2010-03-26, assistant producer of Street Fighter IV, Natsuki Shiozawa, wrote on Capcom’s official blog that “One probably would believe it’s one and the same character!”. "

Basically same character
But SF1 Mike is before the name swap trick and without “Bison” surname they can keep it as it is

Is all about trolling law to don’t give money to Iron Mike, but it’s basically the same character :smiley: