yea i even said so in my article when i said His moves have little block stun i said hp as a cross up.
first off it’s hard to combo off of and are suceptible to Psylocke A as most sf2 style cross ups are,
and secondly, cross ups are a bitch to connect in this game because i speculate that the screen was made bigger to accomadate assists but i could be full of it on that one.
and sometimes sf2t style cross ups don’t even work like they are supposed to in mvc2 … i could explain more but that’s only if you want to know.
lastly what will you do if you hit the cross up? either launch into air combo to do around 50 damage which is average ac damage or something around 60-70 damage from comboing into blodia punch from a jump in which is decent but, that’s the other thing about his hyper comboes they suck as dhc starters cuz the 2 supers you can combo into don’t allow you to dhc into another character to add damage to it without severely sacrificing damage and his best ender dhc blodia vulcan which acts alot like hail because it’s 20+ hits can sometimes miss because it’s so random =/
about his blodia punch glitch, yea it sucks let me explain why:
a) magneto has it too in his “shockwave glitch”, and he has a much better version of it yet you never see it get any play because it’s still hard to get and he has much better options.
b) you basically have to make sure the assist and the point get hit by the last hit at the same time i think which is alot easier said than done and i’m not sure but maybe if you start with something like standing lk into blodia punch they can push block the lk (assuming it hit both the assist and the point)and maybe the assist can fall out of the combo meaning that there’s no way there will be flying screen guard break.
c) they can jump out of the way and get off scott free, i assume there is still a small chance magneto’s has a chance of working though since his covers such a large portion of the screen.
d) if you fuck up which is very likely, guess what? yea it should be obvious it’s like they just blocked a blodia punch which means they can punish you badly for it’s horrible recovery, unlike magneto who doesn’t really have to worry about shit like this.
This also means that jin has a actual risk involved while magneto can throw it out for “Free” although it’s hard to pin down the point + assist enough for you to do such a thing anyways.
expansion is a decent assist, acts alot like psylocke A, but if you want that why not just use psylocke A…
i’m being honest i like jin, but i can’t see it, i just try to chip a little and even that is really hard to do.
I liked a lot your article and I hope you will write more about low tiers…
I loved the idea that you tried your best with jin and pointed why he sucks so much…not just like others guys that just play like twice with him, fail and the simple tell the he is not worth a piece of shit…
If he sucks…he sucks and thats it…there is no way to try to save him…
I actually put Jin really low ever since the discover of the unblockable because he never really had any effective options to escape it the second he super jumped. But recently, i remembered he has one thing going for him, the fact that he can’t be reset on wakeup. Saotome dynamite on a tri jumper after getting knocked down is probably one of the most useful things you can have, expecially since you can bust it out with a flick of the wrist while just holding down the punch button. for that, i’d put him on the lower part of the middle heads.
Yeah, a protective assist (Doom AAA) + Dynamite makes him safe on wake-up. I would think plenty of people put time into Jin (or any other low tier character), the only difference they know it’s old news that they “suck”, continue to use them anyways cause they don’t give a shit and don’t post a thread today why they suck but that’s just me.
Jumping Fierce is really good, though somewhat obsolete since everyone uses AAA. Still a nice move to have.
Exp. assist is good…acts sort of like Psylocke AAA, only with better range.
Saotome Cyclone DHC is nice. It does damage scale, of course, but still does good damage- I remember Doom air combo to photons xx Cyclone doing impressive damage. Though, it’s not the easiest super to DHC into…
Cammy, Colossus, Omega Red, Venom are all in high middle tier, right under the second tier (son son, hulk, morrigan, marrow, gambit are close if not in that “Top middle tier” themselves or possible Middle tier).
There’s differences dude,
alot of people just paint it all as Low tier vs. Top tier and to a lesser extent 2nd tier in mvc2.
I wanted to discuss jin’s tier ranking aswell and i really appreciate all the points you guys bring up I appreciate it.
I dont’ really understand what you want me to do, if you’re saying i shoudl do something about it i’m telling you i am, i want to see if i’m right about jin and if there is some merits here hopefully they’ll be brought to light and it’ll improve my game.
If your’e saying suck it up and play jin even though he sucks i’ll tell you this, i don’t play low tier just to play them, I usually play them because i see potential and i enjoy the different play experiences among other things.
I like Jin as a character, he’s one of my favorites, that’s why i’m hoping something comes up that might improve my game and overall it’s fun to discuss characters in mvc2 at least for me
After all that’s what this forum is here for, discuss fighting games
edit:
I should also say it’s very rare to find any kind of information in the mvc2 character specific forums and while we are on the topic of low tiers i wouldn’t mind trying to discuss other middle/low tier’s characters strenghts and weaknesses and helping out but i haven’t mastered every character although i’m constantly learning them and trying to find one with potential, so i’ll just offer the info i have.
edit2: i also made this topic to note how comically BAD jin is, i mean he doesn’t even have the basic tools that the other middle tier have.
I think this article makes some excellent points but you have to keep somethings in mind. First of all, yes, Jin for the most part sucks. However, if you’re just playing casual or looking to make some interesting looking combos he isn’t bad. Most of Jin’s supers can be seen a mile away and his startup is pretty bad. However, I would have to argue the point he’s not on Roll and Servbot levels of sucks. Jin has a serviceable assist and the cyclone can be added onto other combos for decent damage, ie-captainstorm and cancel into cyclone before the ending corridor.
By no means am I saying Jin is good or disagreeing with anything you said, I just don’t think he is in the Roll and Servbot levels.
You mentioned Ryu sucking, this is also true but I’d content that most characters with the exception of Roll and Servbot have some good use. Are Ryu or Jin going to help you against a top tier team? No. But in some casual play or nontourney stuff, they aren’t awful.
If your name isnt Dr Spr0cter you shouldnt use JIN. Spr0cters jin will go heads up with n e other characters. This man is slept on =[ but much love to my nakka<3=D
i heard he’s good but at the same time i gotta ask…
How?
by all means
drop some knowledge spr0c
edit: thanks air throw, i’m glad you liked it.
I can understand what you’re saying, but Jin is pretty much closer to the servbot/roll/dan tier than just about every other character that comes to mind.
Not counting the top and 2nd tier here’s my tier list:
Top-Middle Tier
Rogue - Vegita X made a good showing with her, but it’s not like he magically made her good. She has a good cross up game and has a fantastic command throw and execellent normals. She also has a good super with invincibility iirc that’s good for blowthroughs and dhcs since i think it’s fast/instant start up.
War Machine - Inferior Iron Man, but that’s not so bad at all, has some thing faster, some things better but does lose alot in return (c. lk, and s. hk are most noticeable) can still infinite and has a better overall super IMO
Omega Red - He has it all, Rush down and keep away. He can rush you down with a air dash cancelled (dash then press back) Heavy kick and he has the df + HK xxx omega strike xxx press back or down. He has a good air combo and has nice normals and a excellent launcher, he’s just a overall great character.
Son Son - Air Dash, Good unique supers, Good AAA, useful supers and specials and normals.
Cammy - Still blindingly fast, still has no good high low game. She has a great AAA and KBA comboes and KBA goes through projectiles as always. Great all around character made for rushing and nullifying projectile characters.
Colossus - Power house, has hyper armor and can block but you already knew that. He has a highly damaging AC ( launch, lp, mp, shoulder tackle xxxx power dive) which takes around 90 damage iirc. He seems to have high priority moves and tiger kneed lk shoulder tackle is good to help get in and apply pressure.
Venom - Can chip or rush down, lp venom fangs have little recovery which chip rather well. Air dash LP into crouching lk is the main high low mix up game for me. He also has supers with utility and death bite super does great damage and can be comboed off a middle attack. Overall good character.
Ice Man - Still is a whore, he’s fast for a keep away character and has a great dash for “rushing down”, he has limited options but he isn’t too shabby at all. Best AC is launch, magic series, kara cancel lp ice beam xxx artic attack. I think he’s still one of the better low tiers, if not in this tier he is in the next one.
Hulk - Powerful character. If you can set up a dhc into a double gamma crush ( I think myke z uses magneto and does launch, magic series xxx temptest dhc into gamma crush (hold foward) for around 123 damage) Gamma Charge xxx Gamma Quake is great for chipping. His normals seem to chip aswell , not a bad character at all.
Mega Man - Mega Man + Sent V is said to kill rush down with rock balls. Air FP has no recovery and is great for keep away or you can dash after it for some rush down. He takes good damage for such a short character and does great damage aswell. He has good tools with his mega buster and useful supers. He also has the most 1 frame attacks in the game, all of his light attacks except for c. lk are 1 frame attacks.
Bonerine/Wolverine - Zaza made a good showing with these guys, they can really lock down. Drill claw is great for punishing assists , Bonerine V is the only low hitting assist in the game. Here’s a block string: C. lp, c. lk, c. mp (see if it hits) if it does do launch into ac if it doesn’t do c. hk + call assist into berserker barrage.
Dhalsim - Murukumo i think is the most well known dhalsim player. Dhalsim has long range pokes, a fast tri jump, useful supers. He also has jab fireball which like many other dhalsim incarnations recovers faster than most other fireballs. Overall great character, bad stamina.
Anakaris - Bad stamina, but alot of strenghts. Viscant is known for anakaris. He also has a 300% combo, which koes a whole team. It revolves around guard breaking and comboing into the doll with cyclops b as assist over and over again. He has good supers, great specials and the pyramid smash as a instant overhead.
Ruby Heart - I think she’s pretty good, she can chip you down and lock down pretty nicely. She has a instant start up red ball super that iirc has invincibilty and it does pretty good damage. It even comboes into itself. She’s known mainly for her lock down but has useful normals and great space controlling and chipping specials she can also use her air ball special as a ghetto air dash (you can’t block after it but you can avoid alot of stuff and as long as the third command is either d or df you should be safe) and it can avoid sentinal’s unblockable rather well i would think.
Nice thread, there is some truth in that Jin does not have alot to offer, but I have to disagree with you as far as saying that he sux. Well im not sure how to elaborate my syle of playing with jin, it requires alot of wave dashing, blocking, super jumping, and lock down. its true that Doom helps Jin out alot, but even without doom my jin can be a force to be reckoned with. Now im not trying to brag or anything like that (cause quite frankly im no top player), but I really can go heads up with the best of the best with jin. I dont get alot of props, but thats fine I dont look for them. But I garuntee that a majority of west coast players know me and my team well. If anyone disagrees with that please post.
i’m guessing your referring to colossus and/or hulk.
Mags into hulk does 128 damage when i did it, that’s pretty much all your life for 2 meters (yes i know storm sent have ish like this but hulk’s still kick ass).
Colossus does around 90 damage which is above average for one level in fact it’s on par with most 2 level dhcs.
if i’m wrong about what you’re talking about please say so.
I’d also put Silver Samurai up in the second tier as well for his ability to literally destroy assists. Not to mention if you don’t have a high low game, he wins just by holding down/back.
Juggz should also be there. The guy’s a constant threat with meter.
Psylocke > Cammy IMO. Better priority, a good projectile, and she has a quick reliable overhead which leads into more damage. not to mention cammy is just too goofy when her KBA super whiffs in a combo when you need it to connect the most.
:sad: oh man. i am so sorry. I remember using Jin in MvC1, and then MvC2 I just started having too much fun with the new characters (T.Bonne & BB.Hood). I havent finished reading your article yet, but just reading your in depth analysis (particularly the above passage) on Jin’s suckiness makes me want to send you (and Jin) a Get Well card.
thanks for posting dude, hope you can share some knowledge