Yes there is some bias here. But facts are facts and business is business. at the end of the day when the book keepers in the arcade reported each (EACH) SF machine made 5X more money than each (usually one) NEO-GEO machine, the people simply chose Street Fighter. Really just look at WW or CE the production on those games is really top notch (attract music, art, sound… OMG the sound.) NEO-GEO fighters were fun but just no where near the quality of the SF titles. Samarai showdown was the only one, which also got multiple home releases unlike most other NEO GEO fighters. Then came mortal Kombat and took some of the SF audience and a lot of the NEO-GEO audience. Then came Tekken… for most casual players SF became ancient history, Combine that with tekken almost being a launch title for PS, it was over for Mainstream SF, and NEO-GEO. The Playstation is responsible for SF having a little more popularity than NEO-GEO, because of the ports. But the PS is also responsible for killing the rabid popularity of SF. PS killed the arcades which killed SF… and NEO GEO.
I love the misunderstanding of posts
I never talked about Better or Worse, I talked about ACESSIBILITY having access to the freakin’ games
the list of fighters I mentionned were a list of fighting games that appeared on the same Time Period in the early to mid 90s and my busyest time attending arcades because there was so much happening.
The SF2HF cabinet, VF2 cabinet, MK2 cabinet and KI cabinet had players playing them and challenging eachother on a regular basis.
The Neo Geo cabinet was always empty, nobody played it, and if you did play it, it was either Art Of Fighting 1 or Fata Fury 1 on it
Sorry if I’m repeating anything already stated. Can’t bear to read the whole thread.
I think the initial concept behind the post is a little bit off. Capcom fighters, as a whole, have not done better than SNK. DarkStalkers, Tech Romancer, Star Glatiaror, all did only as well or worse than your average SNK fighter. Only the SF and VS series really did well, and even that only is due to a few key factors.
1)SF2 came first, and people began to think of those characters as “home team” chracters, and SNK or other fighters as “the visiting team”. Only MK series broke down some people’s loyalty to SF, and that’s only due to th e"fatalities concept being just too damn appealing to the “shock and gore” loving teenage audience.
2)SF2 had near perfect home conversions back in the day when such thing was nearly unheard of. That continued to cause peoples sense of loyalty and attachment to the series. They could practice o nearly perfect port at home, learn and become attached to paticular characters, then take their game to the arcade. That just wasn’t happening with SNK games.
- The Marvel Factor. Comic book nerds in America really went fo rthe VS series. SNK has never had anything that appealing to the American audience. If they had scored the Marvel liscence and made a SNK vs Marvel series that looked as god as Capcom’s MArvel gaems, I doubt SNK would have gone bankrupt.
The real question is, why is SNK popular anywhere? They continually churn out clone after clone of the same game, and haven’t updated their hardware since the mid-90’s?
Cheap_Scrub: I never said they were the nicest looking games, I said they were DAMN good looking for their time; they animated very well and were very attractive despite being NeoGeo games.
The argument isn’t “who is the bigger company,” because it’s quite obvious that Capcom operates on a much larger scale; stating such is superfluous.
I didn’t say look at their catalog to compare to Capcom, I made the request because I was pointing out a common misconception that SNK does nothing but fighters, which is simply not true. They did PLENTY more than fighters, but their fighters are oddly enough what they’re most known for here, because the fighters (and Metal Slug) are pretty much all we (as in American arcades, not privately owned AES or MVS machines) really got from them.
Also, I did say in that post that they don’t have much going for them these days other than fighters and Metal Slug.
(Personal Note: How did MS turn to shit? Have you ever played 5?)
Thanks for completely misinterpreting everything I said. I’m not part of the argument, and I’m not taking sides, I’m just clearing a misconception or two.
Don Knotts: Thanks for mentioning that point about how Capcom fighters in general didn’t do any better. Like I said before, people conveniently forget just how many other fighters Capcom did that were either broken as fuck and left behind or just not that good to begin with.
There really isn’t much I can say in this thread that hasn’t already been said here. Whether or not they were first does definately help, but then marketing is the most important aspect. If you are going to go against something, you have to tell people why they should play your game instead of theirs and they really haven’t been doing that.
That, in turn, brings up the natural phrase like, “We already have played and mastered Street Fighter 2 so why should we go with another?” When people ask that question, nobody is around to answer them, thus they go back to their regular skills.
Quite honestly, other than Crystalis, I didn’t really know anything about SNK until the past few years.
:tup: morons here complaining that SNK sucks, and those are the same people who play SNK’s characters in CVS2.
you guys really need to read this http://www.gamespot.com/features/6089278/ SNK didn’t go to bankrupt because of the games and they did release another system, the Hyper NeoGeo 64.
SNK going bankrupt had NOTHING to do with SNK, it had more to do with the company that invested in them and slowly tried to take everything from them, Aruze.
Aruze mainly wanted all of the hit SNK IPs and turn them into licensed Pachinko games, and some shitty 3d games. They almost succeeded too, but then some of SNK during that time broke off, became Playmore, then eventually Playmore was able to buy back what was left of SNK in a bankrupcy auction, (Capcom was also a bidder in said auction) and became SNK Playmore afterwards.
There’s also that bit about SNK outsourcing KOF for a few years to Korean company Eolith (2001-2002), which explains the quality of both games. =x
And like it was said in previous posts, SNK did try to get out of the NeoGeo shell. To first remedy the expensive NeoGeo AES home console, they released the NeoGeo CD, but unfortunately that suffered from insanely long loading times. Then to jump on the big bang of the 90s, they released the Hyper NeoGeo 64 arcade hardware, the sad part though was that it paled in comparison to arcade hardware at the time (Sega Model 2, Model 3, Capcom and Namco’s Sony PSX based hardware).
Eventually they realized quickly that they had to 3rd party (which Sega followed later on), since the home market was getting too big for them. So they became a third party to Sony and Sega, most of the ports were ok, but none of them really compared to the original NeoGeo versions.
Then they released the NeoGeo Pocket in the late 90s, a great handheld, but sadly this was also during the time when their resources were waning, and lost a great deal on the failed HNG64 attempt, and pretty much bet the farm on the NGP. It doesn’t really help also that they went head to head against the GBA and to a lesser extent the Wonderswan (which had better 3rd party support because it was owned by Bandai).
Basically, it’s not like they didn’t try, because they DID, it’s just that they were just outmuscled by the comp and made really bad business decisions.
And SNK USA is ran by a bunch of retards anyway, even before the whole Aruze assfucking. Hell, they don’t even do the distribution of NeoGeo (and now AW) stuff anyway in the US. Some other third party that SNK Japan contracted does (and now for AW, Sega Coin-op does it for them).
At the end of the day they were just a victim of circumstance and how the times changed on the outlook of the whole industry and market. However, it looks like they are slowly regaining their form and have learned a lot from their past mistakes, which is good for fans and gamers.
P.S. For all SNK fans in North America who still haven’t gotten the clue yet, if you want your console fix, you have to import, because SCEA won’t let those games be released over here, and there won’t be many printed and shipped either for the Xbox line of consoles, which is what you’re seeing now with Neowave.
Well every game is a damn good looking game if you want to say so. You’re making a relative point, “they were good looking for their times” no they weren’t. Like I said, they weren’t EVEN CLOSE to good the game which were “very attractive.” They were good looking for NeoGeo games, that’s about it, when you actually consider what else was around you’d realize how bad they were for their time.
What arguement? It’s a question and it’s about why SNK isn’t bigger. I’m not just repeating it what is already taken for granted in the fucking thread title. I’m actually providing perspective on something you said. To repeat “SNK made more than fighters” isn’t clearing up a misconception. It had already been stated in the thread. It’s funny that the posters who prefer SNK are actually the ones who seem to prefer limiting the conversation to fighting games.
And, well I can’t speak for your arcades but it wasn’t all I ever got of theirs.
What does “going for them” mean? Sorry I assumed it in any part related to the actual topic. I did you a favor and spelled out that the other games weren’t successful. You mention an expansive catalog, I point out that it’s for the most part an expansive catalog of failures.
Yup. On a real machine, at a real arcade, and actually made it all the way through. A lot of badly concieved gimmicks and a strong, obvious attempt to change the direction of the series while ruining the style. The boss battles were severly lacking compared to previous games, as a personal taste I really didn’t like the sliding one bit.
You’re the guy who doesn’t understand what the fuck you’re saying, and again, it’s a discussion on a question, one which most here seem to have a consensus on. Which misconceptions? I see you pushing your fantasy that the games were graphically on par for their time. And then you taught us all that SNK made more than fighters. :rolleyes: :lol:
Okay I know this isn’t directed at me, but why are Capcom’s failures so pivotal a point to bring up, while SNK’s aren’t? Since the whole point IS to compare to the two. Want to count who has more and which were worse?
Capcom is doing better in North America than SNK because they have a stable line-up of good console games.Don’t get me wrong,SNK makes good games but for me i only really care about KOF,LB series,Garou and metal slug (although a new-school ikari warriors would be nice).Capcom has DMC series,Mega Man in it’s various forms,Viewtiful Joe series,Resident Evil series, Ghouls and ghosts series,Street fighter series,etc etc.
Plus Capcom advertises most if not all of their most popular titles.
I wish Capcom had tried to rip off the Metal Slug series.
Metal Slug is truely the greatest achievement of SNK, with Garou right behind it.
co-sign
Again for the record capcom fighters have set the standard since the beginning… That is a fact. SNK games just don’t compare in quality, that is plainly obvious. The whole argument that SF came out first therefore had the upperhand is off, come on World heros, AOF and KOF, never compared to SF. Samarai showdown was the only NEO GEO that even got close to SF quality.
That is why Capcom fighter are more popular than SNK fighters in the USA and everwhere else, there better!!!
So the general feeling is that Capcom games are just “better” than SNK?
I too wish that SNK would revive alot of thier lost titles or create some new ones.
I’m talking new title, none of this “bring characters from other games” games, but fresh, brand spanking new games.
Sigh. Lets try this again.
A: I made the statement of their catalog OUTSIDE of the discussion. I already mentioned I’m not part of it, I’m only trying to clear a few little (yes, they are common) misconceptions of SNK.
Someone said they made nothing but fighters and Metal Slug, I simply said “that’s not true. Look at their catalog, you’ll see a lot more than fighters.” It didn’t affect you in any way, but I guess you had to make yourself feel important. :rolleyes:
I wasn’t bringing into question how successful they were, and I wasn’t adding to the present discussion, it was merely a side comment; all I said was they did more than fighters. You went ahead and assumed I gave a shit about the topic at hand (which has been done to DEATH to no avail because all the other 435098345098345 it’s been done, it’s come down to personal experience and opinion, ending inevitably in a sea of flames between rabid fanboys), and mouthed the fuck off about some shit I didn’t even bring up.
B: Garou and LB had animation that was nearly on par with 3S, and Samsho was never a terrible looking game. They were attractive games CONSIDERING THEY WERE 2D FIGHTERS. That’s my point. Nothing more. I never said they were the best, and I never said they were “the most attractive things for their time,” you’re putting words in my mouth there. If you wanna point out a 2d fighter that has better animation (we’re talking sheer frames) than Garou outside of 3S, go right ahead.
C: Don’t assume I prefer SNK games (I already mentioned I was merely playing devil’s advocate), and don’t assume I give half a shit which company does better. Again, putting words in my mouth.
D: The conversation does end up coming back to fighters a lot because GUESS WHAT? THIS IS A SITE FOR FIGHTING GAMES! AMAZING!! SNK IS most known for fighters (as evidenced by people commenting on how they did nothing but fighters), so it’s only natural to compare games of the same genre, especially when that particular genre is the specialty of the forum. If you would open your fucking eyes, you would notice I’m not the only one talking almost exclusively about the fighters.
E: Everytime this discussion comes up, someone brings up how Capcoms fighters are all awesome and yada yada yada. People are always quick to point out that SNK has shitty fighters, but they conveniently forget that Capcom has plenty themselves, so again, I was playing devils advocate. No one ever brings up Capcoms fighter failures anyway, so what’s your damn problem? Why get so offended at an uncommon point in favor of one that is far more commonly spewed forth? The point of the thread is to compare; you said it yourself. Can’t compare without bringing up both sides, now can we? :rolleyes:
F: “Going for them” obviously means “the only things they’re doing much of anymore,” therefore, I was AGREEING with you, asshat.
:rock: This man speaks the truth, also alot of the reasons why Capcom was more successful has already been stated, I’m really not going to say anything else, just wanted to comment on Lazydel’s post. Whomever said about the KoF’s having more cosplayers then actual competetive gamers…that’s sadly so true…:wasted:.
im just a scrub who gets riled up easily, so i don’t really have much else to offer
its all about the indie pop these days anyway
No he didn’t you lame fuck. Learn to read. He said they rely on their 2D fighters. And they do. You weren’t correcting him in the slightest bit you were at best trying to skew the facts by saying look at their catalog. I AGAIN, was putting perspective on your statement and actually made it relevant.
Yeah you didn’t add a fucking thing, we get that, you also seem to be incapable ot taking anything away from any discussion as well. What did I mouth off on you about that you didn’t say?
No, just no. If you think that ANYTHING puts Garou and the LB series on par with 3S then it can’t be the graphics and least of all the actual frames. Even the marvel series looks superior to ethier and has more fluid animation. The neogeo/mvs hardware was shit and couldn’t handle decent animation or a decent frame set (which is why Garou is so terrible in its constant re-use of animations for DMs). I still don’t think any 2D fighters made in the mid to late ninties were great for their times. Anyone should be able to grasp that. By the fact that Capcom was making 2D fighters which were far visually superior to SNK’s best effort speaks volumes. It’s funny that the games you list were actually attempts to make “Capcom-esque” visual styles. I don’t see how you say they’re on par with 3S when they look like cheap immitations of the Alpha series.
You’re the dumb fuck putting words in my mouth, I never for a moment assumed you prefer SNK games. I said it was those that did who would focus purely on fighters in this thread. That hasn’t fit you. I don’t know which part of any of my posts you took this from but it’s ironic you tell me I’m the one adressing points you never made.
I didn’t say you were. I understand that, I think the best angle to look at it from is from outside of fighters because they when you do narrow your view to just fighting games the companies seem amazingly similar. I can’t talk about anything but fighters because this is a fighting game board?
Yeah, why not bring up both sides like I said? SNK has more failures, Capcom has more successes. Neither are exclusive to one or the other, but you don’t need to be shocked when people associate them by either. Again, let’s compare since you said that’s the point of bringing up both (little more hypocrisy there).
Yeah and I’m forced to repeat myself, I did understand you. Like I already explained, I was adding perspective instead of trying to take it away like you did with your idiotic replies.
Way to turn this in that exact flame war you claim to hate so much simply because you’re incabable of the least bit of reading comprehension. Or do you prefer to call it “playing devil’s advocate?”
For one thing…
That’s the exact post I replied to when I mentioned their catalog.
“No he didn’t you lame fuck. Learn to read. He said they rely on their 2D fighters.”
It doesn’t appear to say that.
You: “If you think that ANYTHING puts Garou and the LB series on par with 3S then it can’t be the graphics and least of all the actual frames.”
In response to this:
Me: “Garou and LB had animation that was nearly on par with 3S…”
Did you see that? NEARLY. Yes, we all know that the NeoGeo was terrible ass hardware, but they worked with it regardless. On the subject of the art styles… it’s Anime, dude.
Say what you want about the graphics, I’m in no way denying that NeoGeo sucked. At any rate, I could easily say “no SNK art style looks anything like Capcom’s art styles aside from anime influence,” but this point is wasted because we just happen to have differing opinions on 2d graphics.
As for the comparison, how come you didn’t bring up Capcom’s fighter failures then? So you’re calling me a hypocrite for simply pointing out (IE it’s irrelevant to the discussion because apparently the discussion encompasses more than just fighting games) that a lot of people only bring up one side of the “who has more failures” discussion. The only reason I’m not bringing up both sides for a good honest comparison is because I don’t have solid data in front of me to vouch for either company aside from a list of games. Also, I was referring to the way people assume that all SNK games are broken (yes, a lot of them are) and lack the quality of gameplay people here associate with Capcom fighters (which is where my “no one plays NG or 2I anymore” comment came from), and the point of this statement isn’t to somehow prove that one is better, but rather to show that they’re a lot more alike than people are willing to admit. This is more relevant to a strict fighters and gameplay discussion, so I probably should have differentiated this from the start, because that statement makes no real sense otherwise (because it’s a well known undeniable fact that SNK fucked up royally in the US). My bad.
I didn’t mean to say that you couldn’t talk about non-fighters, but it shouldn’t be all that surprising coming from SRK that fighters end up being a big part of the equation for most people here.
For everything else, I’ll step down and admit error.
No actually you are twisting facts, let’s look at the ENTIRE POST
I said
WOW, woops looks like you left out a lot of stuff, funny thing is the FIRST time you quoted my post you quoted the entire thing, and now back pedal to ONE sentace because you got called out for pulling the twisting facts BS you have been doing since then.
sit down he got it right and you can’t undo what you have said before.
I’ll stand by my original point.
SNK is a failure because they depended on their fighters, and outside of that acomplished only metal slug.
Yes they had other very good games. But they didn’t cover the market as massively as capcom did. Capcom has had some of the best games in just about EVERY genre. RPG (breath of fire), action (mega man, bionic commando, ghosts and ghouls), horror (resident evil, onimushu), the list goes on.
SNK only really had their fighters as block buster hits with massive market penetration. Metal slug did fairly well, but overall didn’t go as far as their fighters.
EDIT: Nevermind.
If that’s the truth you would have only qouted that statement, either that are you an idiot for not reading the entire statement and quoting a bunch of information that contradicts your counter arguement.