So, what you’d prefer is a super button, and supers that are practically useless? Why go through the trouble of doing the super if it didn’t do more damage than your normal options? Might as well remove supers and specials then.
Or incorporate a “win” and an “inf” button to go along with the “super” button in future sequels…
Scratch the inf button. Why wait all that time to win? It should be as effortless as thinking. :rolleyes:
okay obviously we dont want to go all the way and make the supers do-abale with the press of a button. neither do we want to go the other extreme and make players do the awkward double qcf motion (which to this day i can only reliably do on a keyboard, and still can’t combo into).
we should just take the middle ground, the brilliant ground, the method used by xmenvssf and all the versus games: the qcf + all punches and qcf + all kicks supers and their variations.
MUCH easier to combo into, not so much so that its like pressing one button, but still allows users to actually USE their supers and COMBO into them and etc
edit: imagine how BORING mvc2 would be if super motions were all gayed up like they are in ST or CVS2 or KOF or whatever. NO ONE would use supers anymore. the game would be DULL. the only character anyone would even bother playing would be magnus because he’s like the only guy whose fun to play and doesn’t need a super
what would happen if hailstorm were charge d/b 2 seconds, d/f d/b u/f + kick? or if HSF became a double 360 motion? or if AHVB became qcf hcb hcf hcb + punch? no one would want to play the game, it would have been completely gayed up.
i dare say the game would improve even more drastically if akuma’s raging demon became a qcf motion, and gief’s SPD and FAB and all that. would definitely beef those two up a lot more.
People don’t get to the point where they want to learn more about a game when they are stuck doing normals. You want more people to come to the party? Then they have to be able to come through the door. This is the door, you have to get past this obstacle before you can really even start to play the game otherwise you are spamming normals (and you limit your character dramatically and handicap yourself even against other beginners). Eventually all of us will leave the party and not enough people will be getting in. Simply put: the party will be over.
Capcom has gradually loosened it’s controls so it’s more accessible. You want things to be more competitive? Well there has to be actual COMPETITION for that. I’m not saying to whore out fighting games and make them play totally scrubby, but you have to realize what has real merit and everyone will tell you that throwing hadoukens isn’t special.
I think you’ve entirely missed the point and added a little on besides. I want particular actions to be as simple as possible because I don’t want whether or not you can move your hand one way or the other in rapid succession to be a barrier to anyone. I don’t think the goal should be being able to do a certain super, I think it should be knowing when and where to use it and how to force your opponent to let you use it, and if making a super motion very easy helped in doing that (as I’m sure it would), I’m all for it. I don’t necessarily want supers to do minimal damage, although if they do 90% obviously that’s retarded. I just want the game to be made in such a way that the only limiting factor is your grasp of its strategy.
Current technology makes it not viable/impossible to make a game that enable us to control the characters using our thoughts only.
One thing to note. While you are strategic enough to know when to use a move, you should also be tactical enough to execute it.
No 1m high basketball rims, please.
Edit: Actually in some games, there is the occasional spamming of normal moves… But we call it poking. XD
Yeah…it would give new meaning to the question “How about a quick game?” Of course, it would lead to some cheap
victories…
you like RPGS, dont you?
dun like doin’ specials? Play ggxx :tup: Use chipp and only do JI combos. Instead of OTG gamma use FDC j.k cross over for wake up games.Or use sol and spam his dust loop, or ky and his forward kick loop, or use robo ky’s BnB c.k, c.s, hs frc, dash in s, JI, SJC, air combo into air dust… see? that’s playing the game realli well. dun need specials… 
Nah. I pretty much stick to fighting games and the occasional StarCraft, since to me fighting games and RTS games have the most interesting and varied strategies. I like fighting games more than RTS though, mainly because they’re faster. I don’t really play video games other than that.
are you thinking it through? giving ppl advantage? of course it does. IT’s meant to. Ppl took the effort to learn. If you didn’t take the effort to learn, suck crap. Plain and simple. If you didn’t learn how to shoot a 3 pointer in basketball. Suck crap. You get what you put in. If you haven’t noticed no one SKIPPED the fireball process. Everyonee went through it. No one just picked up a joystick and started doin’ infinites. They took the effort to learn a special. Then took the effort of learning how to combo into it. If you dun put shit in, you dun get crap out.
Gaming is a sport. And 2d fighters are technical. You need good timing, good reflexes, and good execution and knowledge of spacing. If you’re worried about the market today, dun be. It has nothin’ to do with fighters themsevles anyway. It has everything to do with the arcade industry instead. In places in asia, no one complains about execution… :lame:
While we are at it, let’s set every basketball rim at six feet, take away the aspect of dribbling, and shorten the court to 12 feet long. After all, everyone can’t dunk, can’t dribble and can’t run down court, right?
The whole idea of competition is to separate the good from the great. Moves are meant to be difficult to pull of. When you actually take the time to learn them, it gives you a sense of accomplishment. When you don’t take the time, you simply make pointless threads that showcase your laziness and inability to rise out of your tiny little world of make believe.
What makes you more special that those ppl who have practiced and put in the time to be as good as they are? If you aren't willing to walk through the fire like the rest of us, screw you. Its called paying you dues, and nowadays, most young ppl don't want to do it. They want everything handed to them with little effort. In my HSF,A1, A2 days, I didn't feel I accomplished anything til I did 100 dragon Punches in a row. Period. I practiced. Alot. VF2: ANYONE who as ever performed a SPOD with Akira after single palming a crounching non-defender knows what the hell I am talking about. If feels good to execute a difficult maneuver in the heat of combat.
Half the ppl who are "good" at SSBM wouldn't be half as good if the EXECUTION of the moves required skill. Mind you, it is a very tactical game(I guess), but its what I consider a kiddie game that can be upgraded to tourney status.
Question: would Daigo's parrying of Justin's super have been as dramatic if you parried by holding down 2 punch buttons (ala GGX; not taking away from GGX, mind you)?
The original poster is simply clueless. Pay your dues, man.
This bball analogy really sells it. On an aside, am I the only person here who finds qcbhcf or qcfhcb easier than qcbx2 or qcfx2?
Seriously, I love it when people who’ve never played 2D bitch about CDing in Tekken. I’ve heard so many people call me gay cause I can perform a simple delayed DP while they can’t. Because scrubs can’t be bothered to learn “difficult” input they should have the right to lose. I think soul calibur 2 had the right idea. JFs galore. All of a sudden practice meant Cervy’s relaunch combo and skill becomes a major factor.
okay read the last few pages
who cares total n00b tries sf, kof etc can’t play it properly after 5 hours goes off to play rpg/fps etc and then badmouths fighting games
Just bring in an Easy mode like MSH VS SF it never got any better than that…
you = happy
n00bs = happy
eventually they’ll learn the moves and w00t!? 2d forever well maybe a year or two, sniff hopefully
Attention SRK’ers. Polarity and Higher Jin are right, the people arguing against them are wrong. Thanks for your attention.
EDIT:
About the basketball analogy. It takes practice to shoot into a 10 foot net. But players don’t have to move back, forward, jump up three times, do a windmill, then a handstand to get in a shot.
A bit of practice does fine.
So games can’t be good without requiring some form of execution? What about chess?
I can do just about all the moves in any fighting game just fine, but what does that prove? Nothing. Why even have that as a requirement especially when it is counter productive to something that the scene needs (competition/more people). It’s like wanting to sell a house then adding in 20 pages of unneccesary paperwork for no good reason, this attracts more people to the deal? What if normals required qcf motions and specials got some zany new 720 motions + 3 punches and a kick?..sound like fun to learn?
The point is that if you just as easily can make the execution for the basics easier so more people can play it then why the fuck not? Yes some of the moves in current games might be broken with simplified commands but this is not about current games, it’s about the next games that would have the simplified motions into consideration.
No no no no no.
Players HATED people that picked easy mode. Hell in kaillera they still turn that off when you pick it. I think it’s a stupid mentality “I had to learn them, so now you have to too!”. If everyone thought that way we’d never fucking advance (we’d keep passing down the same hardship generation to generation). The first people hunted animals with rock hammers SO JOO MUST PAY YOUR DUES TOO!!!1
Also easy mode was horrible. First you gave yourself extra startup lag on your moves , couldn’t do all the moves anyways, and iirc you couldn’t do air comboes properly (launch moves don’t launch, i’d have to double check though).
From what i remember, you HAD to launch with lp+lk. Regular launches would just leave you in normal hitstun on the ground.
Then you jump and press jab a few times, you get an air combo. Go Easy Mode.
I think the motions are fine as they are now, just don’t make the much more complicated than the things you are used to seeing. (Combos, and timing can be difficult, but the actual moves should be easy to slide into.)
Aren’t we arguing in circles again? SF motions are among the easiest in 2D fighters. SNK fighters(which for some reason people automatically think KOF, since SS, RBFF and even AOF to an extent went to simpler motions) are hard, but not mind-numbingly hard. Once again I ay that most of those HSDMs and SDMs in question are all either really worth the difficulty of the motion, or are so situational that they’re worthless.
IMO if you can do ES specials in DS, and DMs in FFS, then you can handle any command in any 2d fighting game.
And if you can play VF(where do you think Just Frames came from?), you can play any other 3d game.