weeyelll easymode doesn’t replace “proper way of play” it’s just an alternative to give them a taste for 2d…
in 3d games k,k,k is a combo, b and k a move, f, f p a move etc etc common even a monkey could play tekken (no offence still a great game)
but with 2d you uppercut(prolly the most common 2d move) and fireball… maybe fireball can be done for a total noob with practice but and dp feh… j/k trying kid I seen it with mah own 2 eyes.
This comparison doesn’t work because those changes markedly alter and simplify basketball strategy, and that is totally not what I want. Sports aren’t a good analogy because there’s no way to make things easier without making the game less strategic. Fighting games are different. If you make a Raging Demon a qcfX2 move, you don’t change the strategies associated with it at all; the only thing that changes is that now more people can use Akuma better.
I think it’s pretty elitist to say, we had to go through a difficult period in order to do something, so you have to too. I want fighting games, particularly 2d games, to survive, and given the state of arcades and even console release 2d games, most gamers don’t have much reason to look into them, let alone get good at them. The complex motions and button inputs some fighting games have today are real turn-offs for some people. I have friends who’ve tried, at my request, to get into fighting games, but the fact that there’s such a huge learning curve for someone with no experience playing fighters with even basic things like dragon punches and tiger knees, not to mention things like the Raging Demon and Geese’s pretzel super, makes them eventually give up.
With how it is now, you have to put in your dues for a long time before you can even start learning the actual strategies in the game. Essentially, you have to see the potential awesomeness and interest in strategies you haven’t even experienced yet when you’re first starting out, or else you might give up. But if you could start out and be able to learn the moves and their inputs more easily, you could start with the actual strategies and mindgames that make fighters cool a lot earlier. I can’t see anything bad with that.
But this still comes back to players in the process of learning simply not caring enough to stay with it. If that was the way things were back when 2D fighters were still at the peak of their popularity, then there wouldn’t be anywhere near as many players left as there are now. Casual gamers expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter these days, wanting to be able to do as much as possible by doing as little as possible. Sure, fighters aren’t for everyone, and that’s fine, they’ll move on to other kinds of games. Nothing can be gained from dumbing down the controls of fighters for the sake of players who obviously feel that becoming skilled at them doesn’t matter much to them in the first place.
You forget that at that point sf2 was THE game. It was legendary, and it was mainstream. It had the best graphics at the time and singlehandedly saved arcades. Of course people learned and dealt with it then but now it simply isn’t the case.
How dumb do you want the controls to become? Dumb enough that by mashing, some random super comes out?
Dumb enough that previous players of the game series backed off from it cos the controls are stupid?
And oversimplifies Akuma’s damage making ppl focus on landing the raging demon. Yes. And making the game less strategic as everyone will whore this move (esp the kara version), and create pure imbalance in the game. Smart one.
Using your own words, and taking out the exceptions of useless DM’s in KOF (which are rarely used in high level play apart from the random few), there are no ways you can make 2d fighting games easier without making the game less strategic. There are reasons why easy mode in SF, and even KOF games in consoles are afailure. Coz it doesn’t give them enough freedom and choice between options. Put frankly there are NO ways woteva possible that SF/GG/KOF games can be stripped of the qcfx2 motion, unless you take out certain moves or aspects of the game (for example bc cancelling, ex moves, FD). Just face it, the downing of 2d fighters have nothin’ to do with execution. I don’t see ppl in my HK and JAP goin’ “OMFG… it’s too hard to kara shoryuken! or BDC bite! THis game is gay, me not playing anymore!” No… they stick with it. Do you know why? Becoz there is competition. ANd the competition comes from easy access of arcades. ANd the success of arcades is becoz they are built in areas of extreme convienece. It’s next to a bus stop, a train station, an mtr station, it’s bloody everywhere. In the US? there are rarely any arcades. Thus there isn’t much competition. THus ppl dun play that much anymore and dun train at home. I mean even 3d fighters with extremely piss easy execution is compartively dead when put in line with games like WWC, WC3 dota, even farken CS.
Hardcore execution makes ppl not want to play… :lame: It’s the market dude. Got nothin’ to do with execution.
I want controls to be as simple as possible. Since we obviously can’t operate the controls with our minds alone, I guess that means more or less what we have now, except minus things like some of the vicious DM movements, the Demon input, 720s, etc. In a perfect world, though, I’d want it to be like you just think “low forward xx fireball” and there it is.
Making the Demon qcfX2 would make people whore it? How often do you see the Demon landed in high level play? Once every two or three matches or so? That isn’t because the high level players can’t do the motion quickly, they can. It’s because you can’t “whore” the Raging Demon. All the same tricks and setups used now would still apply and all the escapes would still apply, it’s just that those tricks and setups would be accessible to players outside of the highest level. And again, I can’t see how that’s a bad thing.
There are many reasons why fighting games aren’t doing well in America. It’s not just that arcades are rare, it’s that potential players don’t see the interest. To them (and to many of my friends), fighting games are a contest between who can manipulate the controls fast enough and well enough to do the biggest combo first. They don’t see the strategy. And if they decide to try to pick up a fighting game, they quickly get discouraged because it’s so hard for complete newbies to do even basic commands. It’s very different in places like Japan, where doubtless many people have friends or relatives who already play and talk about how awesome fighting games are and keep new players going. That doesn’t exist as much here. If they could get to the point where they’re using cool and engaging strats, they would be much more likely to stick with it, but right now that often takes too long to make it worth their while. Imagine if all they had to do was think, and their character would do what they wanted? Bam, all they have to do is learn stuff like which moves are good and what combos into what and they’re read to enter the land of strategy.
Understand that this wouldn’t make it so that any joe idiot off the street could be a high level player. Even now, the things that separates the high level from the average player are strategy and mindgames and mental reflexes and adaptability. Anybody can do a dragon punch or even a Demon (if for some reason they care to), but when and where and why do they do it? That same line would still separate the top from the rest, it’s just that the low-level players would be bumped up to “the rest” more quickly.
And 3d fighters have extremely piss easy execution? I don’t know which versions of Virtua Fighter and Tekken you’ve been playing, but the ones I’ve been playing have pretty vicious execution, quite frankly.
and you bypass all arguments and nick pick on words and examples. Your pin pointing and desruption of my examples does indeed build your ethos, yet on the same token show your lack of knowledge on the actual argument at hand.
Strategy and execution comes hand in hand in fighting games. Like firepower and strategy at war. To have betta fire power, is to have betta execution. ANd like powerful weapons, you must invest time in mastering it. There is no short cut as i have already stated, for there is no perfect world (where you dun have to learn execution), which is in fact quoted from you.
You state that potential players are not interested. And you come forth with the argument that they are not playing anymore becoz they see winning is all about who can pull off the big combos? Winning is about who can pull off the big combo, which in reality means who can deal the most damage to an opponent. That is obvious. Yes, Winning is about firepower as much as strategy. People who wins at low levels and mid levels in Japan and HK, usually wins at the execution level. If your argument was true, how DO people overseas make it into higher level play when they are supposedly bored out by all the execution. Yes again it all comes to competition which is all centered by the presence of arcades. And as you said, in japan and Hk, relatives and everyone are playing are due to arcades. Thus they promote it. And tell the newbs to follow through. THe US does not have the same privelage as thee arcade scene is dead. As a matter a fact, you contradicted your own argument.
Strategy? if you can not even see how closely tied strategy is with execution there is no point to discuss. It is through execution that your number of strategies increase, and that your strategies WORK. It is through execution that you can use your strategies. THus what differentiates a top from a mid player is their execution on the strategy level. A top player only needs to talk over the strategies of okizeme to a noob, and the noob who can do specials should be in PAR with the top player, but this is not true. Becoz it takes practice to get the timing right and know the spacing for a meaty attack and combo. An average can not go b.MK xx SA3 (ken SF3) just becoz a top player told them that they should mix that up with c.lk, c.lp, c.lk, xx SA3, and walk up throw for okizeme. An average can usually just go for a throw, a c.mk xx SA3, or mp,hp xx SA3 at best. SImilarly telling an average to do a low poke, and then parry low, if nothin happens block. If over head comes do high parry only works in the theory level. You need practice and execution.
ANd to be frank, it is the nature of fighting games to be technical as it is to be strategic. Always has and always will be.
Ich habe nie irgendeine Schwierigkeit eingebend irgendeine Videospielebefehle! Meine Finger bewegen an wie acht hundert Meilen pro Stunde. Es ist apparant, den Sie alle gerechte an Videospielen saugt, sowie Lebens.
What makes you think that FG companies will modify and alter an existing and new game which the main market of Japan + Asia have generally no problems in playing into an “Easy mode” game for sale in the US?
And I can give you an analogy.
You like to eat seafood noodles and you want to have them for dinner tonight. You took out the receipe to make the noodles. However, it is too troublesome/diffcult/cumbersome to boil noodles, cook seafood to 70% cooked, pour noodles and seafood into frying pan, add flavourings, garnishing, etc. Most importantly, you don’t want to waste time. You want shortcuts to success.
So you go to the kitchen, open a drawer and take out a cup of instant seafood noodles instead. Well, you are STILL having seafood noodles for dinner but you lost out on the experience and satisfaction factor of making that yourself.
Here’s another point. The chess argument is flawed. I don’t see strategy longing noobs getting into chess anymore than I see them getting into FGs. I think we still need to point out that people don’t get into 2D FGs cause they look like shit. Todays’ noobs want graphics and coolness. It’s not just input it’s the dated graphics as well. Likewise I don’t see people who give up on bridge (I play this game a lot) take lesser card games like 45 yuker or hearts seriously. In fact card games are dying out cause a pack of 52 cards aren’t half as exciting as killing someone in a FPS.
cards are dying out? have you ever gone to las vegas?
you sir are WRONG
People won’t be a attracted by a big sign that says “15% easier commands inside!”. But people who actually give the games a chance (sometimes referred by someone who’s already a hardcore fighting game fan) shouldn’t be able to be deterred like this.
It’s not flawed. I wasn’t talking about the simplicity of it attracting more people (although if it was more complicated, there would be less people who would play it most likely (checkers?) I was talking about how there are games with simple rules that are still difficult to play.
Let me ask you, how did you get into fighting games? and when?
edit: Even about the whole “strategy doesn’t attract newbs” thing, you’re pretty wrong too. If they don’t ever get to the strategy part of the game they won’t see alot of what real fighting games have to offer. The question becomes: “What reason do they have to learn/stick around enough to get that point?” As you said yourself why play SF3 when you can run around in halo 2 doing corkscrew headbutt sommersaults in bullet time while a hooker blows you and then explodes as you land on a donkey and shoot swords that shoot guns that shoot swords at your opponent…which btw is 500 foot yellow octopus monkey.
Oh and in :
3D!!!
it might not immensely appeal to the mass market, but it will make it easier for the already niche fighting group to expand or get a bit bigger, even a bit would be better for me, because at the rate it’s going it’ll just die out completely… in about 5 years or so
ppl just want to have fun with games(so if your new to a game and it’s too difficult just play and rpg instead it’s easy has an epic story and you can play the game for months inside out and become a level 99 warpig, great graphics, hot cgi chicks etc etc) , it isn’t like it used to be, arcades were everywhere in the past, most 7/11 had SF2 and mk cabs, now they don’t got nothing and they don’t care
games are much more accessible now so much bigger choice and stuff who wants to play a 2d fighting game when it’s so difficult