Point taken, to varying degrees of acceptance.
And my point wasn’t biased, nowhere near. I’m a fan of both genres, maybe more so on the fighting game side.
I’m talkin more like this: If someone had to choose between shooting someone and punching someone, they’d most likely take the first option because chances are if you’re shooting someone, they won’t be able to come after you after. I’m talking from a mental standpoint. A fist compared to a gun in the mind is almost non-existent as a threat. And really, I think the fact that if you get shot dead, you probably feel a pain then… nothing. When you’re getting your ass beat physically though, you feel everything sooner or later. And people don’t like watching their guy get punched in the face and raped by a super combo.
With how people react and play their games, I’d imagine the “immersion” feels more comfortable because despite the other guys having guns, they have guns too and don’t have to worry about them coming back or beating them to a pulp or chasing them into a corner or anything else.
This goes along with the learning curve argument: It’s not only learning the game physically but mentally. You shoot and throw grenades with a few other options like a melee or jump or some action depending on the shooter. You do have the environment to your advantage or disadvantage but that’s the main part besides who has a bigger gun and pulls the trigger faster. However, it is easy to figure out where people will congregate or be at since although free-movement is allowed, it becomes natural for a group or a person to move to the same spot.
In a fighter you have tons of options just on your character alone in their normal moveset, their special moveset, their combos, throws, cancels, all that stuff. You have basic 2D movement though and within these standards there’s a lot more to learn. However, unlike in a shooter where everything is pretty much the same with a few differences, every character is different and as long as you aren’t playing Marvel or 3rd Strike, there’s a pretty diverse character selection usually. So you have to get into your opponents head with baits, traps, guesses, whatever and directly assault and abuse him rather than say just snipe from across a stage or run up behind and kill or grenade.
Notes for those who don’t want to read that:
In shooters, you use some mental power but it doesn’t use as much thinking as fighters since in shooters you kill within a few bursts of a gun or pulls of the right trigger, where in fighters you have to beat down someone till their life is 0 and you have to constantly figure out (if its a good player) how to get in, attack, and keep attacking or get out without being killed yourself for more than just a few seconds.
This is the same for me with some friends. They think Street Fighter sucks because its “too hard” and its “boring” and the “graphics aren’t GoW2 level” and all that shit. For the record, Gears is a slow ass game to me and really clunky and boring. And I beat their asses at it and I hate shooters. Go figure.
theres this thing called “respawning” in fps games 0__o
and there r tons of arcade fps games like unreal tournament and quake that rely on “dodging” and other tricks that simulate more of a fist fight than a gun fight if compared to real life
jus because fps uses guns…doesnt mean its a realistic potrayal of irl guns
different characters behaving differently in 2d fighters, can be compared to different gun behaviours in fps games
or an even more direct relation, different classes in certain fps games like team fortress
also note that different maps require different tactics
choosing a different stage in a 2d fighter has no affect on tactics or gameplay
again…not all shooters go for realism
most fps games have health bars
and it takes more than jus a couple of shots in several occasions
and if u aks me…even if u were to get killed after a few seconds, e.g. rainbow six
i would think that u would put more thought into being strategic so that it doesnt happen
u have absolute 0 (zero) room for error…and so u have to be exactly precise
if it required no thinking…why do u think this subset of fps games have been named “tactical shooters”?
To be fair, I’m sure there are some shooters that are better than Halo and other mainstream stuff. I can see hardcore guys thinking of halo like we may DOA.
Lol at halos hitboxes being the size of a broad side of a barn, btw.
One problem is that Fighting games seem to ecompass most aspects often focused on singularly by the majority of games; Button combinations and memorization like Guitar Hero/Rockband style games, The spacial awareness and on the spot problem solving of puzzle games (how do I make my body or projectile reach my opponent through the narrow zone he has created for me to work with with the character specific tools I have), On the spot strategizing as in FPS and RTS, Psychology, fast reactions. A typical fighter is really well over a dozen games rolled into one.
Players who whine about some specific aspect of a fighter (too many fireballs/zoning, excessive throws, whatever else they decide is cheap) really are just looking at the game as a less complex entity. They play it for what it looks like at first ; a fun game to mash buttons and beat people up. Some figure out and appreciate some of the more subtle aspects, but unfortunately most Gamers are looking for games with a more narrow focus on one or two game styles and mechanics. Rock Band/Guitar Hero are extremely popular and all they are is pattern repeating.
With the success of Rock Band and Guitar Hero, it would actually be intresting to see Bust a Move/Groove remade. It was a very cool hybrid of the Fighting/Musical Pattern genre.
Gaming is atracting alot more people now than ever before and thus the prime market is far more likely to look for games more specific in what game styles and genres are presented. This is why Smash Brothers is so popular. Even if one player is really good at the game, casual players looking for a simple fun mash fest can still feel like they are accomplishing something. Even the worst player is bound to knock out a moderately skilled oponent, another of their n00bish friends, or a computer AI at least once in a round or two of play. As much as I hate SSB, it is brilliant in its design for this and I give it credit. It is a missing link of the fighting genre. If fighters are going to become mainstream we need more games like this, much like the FPS genre truly exploded when it got Halo.
The less accessable games will slowly attract new players as the new players start realizing there is more to Smash Brothers and if they can appreciate that complexity. I think we can actually thank a good chunk of the resurgence of fighters this year on SSBM and SSBB to be honest.
I’d always wondered about Rock Band/Guitar Heroes popularity and I’d had my theories but you seem to have hit it right on the head. I agree with everything you said, except perhaps the fact SSB got people to look at fighters more. What I will add is I think its even more sinister than how you word it; I think most Americans these days are simply lazy, want to put in a little effort as possible and the word “subtle” does not exist in our vocabularies. I also like your analogy about SSBB and how its simplicity allows the difference between a person just playing between a ‘serious smasher’ (
) to be very, very thin and I notice especially because this same value has been on Tekken as of late. I do not think this is a good thing, however.
I might be wrong, but most people i know that like fighting games also enjoy bruce lee, dragonball/z, and and have watched blood sport(van dam).
Thats just what makes people play the game to begin with, then they run in terror when a moderately skilled player zones them or in frustratiion when they cant make blue pixels fly from their hands.
Hahaha, I enjoy those things 
But the thing is Smash bros (melee & brawl) are NOT fighting games. There both garbage, and Americans like easy party games. So that’s why gay games like smash is so big.
Didn’t the Japanese make Brawl? Just wondering.
what about that more people can play shooters at once?
i mean, if youre with 4 buddies, everyone can play halo of CoD4 together at the same time, but only 2 people can play SF together at once
the same is true with brawl. It may seem like a minor thing, but i know my friends who dont play SF bring this up when i try to get them to play
Guess aside from being the minority on SRK (I’m white. :sad:) I am also a minority in this aspect.
I am not a fan of Bruce Lee or Anime in general. I do no homo love me some Van Damme though.
Basically everything I had to say has been covered.
I think it’s because fighting games are harder. I’m not saying that shooters are extremely easy, I’m just saying that I think the usual shooter is easier to get good at then the usual fighting game.
One thing I believe will always be better though, is that in fighting games, winning feels much better. A ten win streak in a fighting game feels way better then a ten win streak in a shooter, probably because it’s much more self accomplishment.
i hope ur not insinuating that these games r easy?
well…rock band is kinda the dumb’d down version of guitar hero in-terms of difficulty
but the button executions r at least 10x more harder than any fighting game
(100% full clearing a song on expert…not no “jus barely passing on normal” -__-’)
anyways they’re popular because almost everyone likes music
it appeals to a wide audience…as opposed to a very small one
and in terms of utilising different aspects…
imo the fps genre has all of the above u mentioned and then some
the only difference, is that u dun need to utilize all those things to enjoy one
Less appeal. Not as accessible as in harder to find good competition when compared to competitive shooters. Although I can only compare to counterstrike 1.6 since that’s the only fps I really got into. For example, instead of either having to go to someone’s house, or find an arcade (if there are any :sad:), a teenager like myself can easily get my ass onto irc hella quick and get a scrim of any skill level or even esea without needing a license or a ride. Also, imo casual play for fighting games is pretty damn boring when compared to casual play for fps’s.
Not at all. They take alot of practice and skill and I am hats off to anyone who is good at them. They are however very narrow in design and gameplay. All drawing is is pressing and dragging a pencil on paper, but doesn’t mean people cannot become masters at it on levels worthy of awe or that it isn’t a worthy past time.
I mean that there is essentially 5 or more different games you are playing at the same time during a game of Street Fighter while Rock Band is still essentially one game ; Pattern memorization and execution. You play it either for the music or to get better at the gameplay.
i like most of the reasons in this thread that have been said almost all have at least some truth to them, i only read to the second page tho and hers my list of why shooters are in front of fighting games:
WAY easier to get into at first, shooters have amazing depth tho probably almost as much as fighting games.
graphics: would you rather look at a pic of an ugly fat chick or a pic of hot skinny one? games are the same, ppeople want to look at whats plaesing to the eye… when WW came out it was the best looking arcade game out, not by a little but by ALOT, it was GORGEOUS. but now if you were to compare say ST or 3S those games just dont compare to like halo 1, or call of duty 4. and this i where remix and sf4 come in. 4 is beautiful and remix makes you want to play 'cause the sprites arent comparatively ugly when sat down next to this generations of games. i mean who wants to go back and play atari 2600 for 4 hours a day??? lets see a show of hands.
people dont like getting owned: nuff said, in shooters you can leave a room and go to another if the competition there is just too intense. not everyone is masochistic.
with online for fighters getting better at online matchmaking scrubs will be able to play against people of there skill level easier, just like how it is in most FPS. they may not get much better, but they will have fun and to most people videogames are there primarily for that purpose.
the group aspect of shooters is more involved: if you suck but you have someone who is godlike on your team you can have a relatively relaxing time letting that guy or guys take everyone out while you pick off the stragglers, it may not be the most pride inducing way of fighting but hey atleast your killing shit and not getting killed yourself. if however you get owned you can blame it on your noob teammates which lets you save face in front of yourself, few people can admit that someone is BETTER than them. stronger? sure. quicker? no doubt. has a bigger gun /better teammates? of course. but are they BETTER than you? FUCK NO. and honestly it’s stupid for a game to ask a person to sacrifice there ego in order to play it. fuck ninja gaiden and the ST arcade computer.
and i would also like to add that GOOD training modes would help out immensely toward making people who cant even fireball into something that can be an ok player, then they can go out get the little lag online comp to level themselves up even more.
i personally dont play FPS 'cause i suck balls at them, i cant imagaine some beginner playing against me in a fighting game, getting owned like stupid and then being like THAT WAS FUN LETS DO IT AGAIN!!! “this time could you perfect me 3 times in a row instead of 2?!??!”
i think FG’s are on there way back, we just have to not scare those little newbs off by being condescending and never giving them tips on how to improve.
-dime
Halo really isn’t the best example of the potential in FPS games. If anything some of the deepest FPS games never got as big as they should have due to having immense skill curves.
Take a look at the Tribes series of games (not Tribes Vengeance tho). It was a game that required all the aiming ability of a Q2/Q3 (no aiming assistance, had to be precise), that combined the innovative aspect of managing your speed/movement.(through a mechanic called skiing where you gained speed as you moved down hills, and jetpacks that would allow you to maintain speed mid-air, etc).
People would literally spend countless hours learning a map to find the most efficent way of playing on it. It was a team based FPS that made for some of the most amazing matches ever, but never truly hit the mainstream – why?
Because new players to the game would get utterly destroyed. The skill curve was deep enough that veterans to the game simply plowed over new players without any resistance at all.
Just an example of movement in the game (the vid in question isn’t even good movement, just first thing I could find off youtube)
[media=youtube]-Ph1ExeAHpo&feature=related[/media]
On a side note, the first real instances of shoutcasting of competitive matches actually came up in Tribes - it spread to other games later, but that’s another story.
You know you’re allowed to like more than one thing, right? And playing game “A” doesn’t mean you can or can’t play game “B”