I know that police stage in XvSF/MSHvSF has a left wall where characters bounce off of it, which allows for more comboability. Still, I’ve never seen anyone complain about it. It’s just part of the game and people have been working with it for years.
GWM’s downside is that he can’t block, which makes him vulnerable to projectile hypers and the like. I mean, it doesn’t matter too much as the dude can just walk up and slap you for hitting him. Sure he’s dominant, but IMO he’s not worthy of a ban, even with the ability to chip you out in a duo. He’s just another part of the game you suck it up and learn to deal with.
Wasn’t he soft-banned in Japan? And really you can’t compare O. Sagat to PTX anyway. PTX has his good and bad matchups, but it’s not like he’s dominating the scene or anything. If you don’t like him, counterpick him and shut him down.
Uh, didn’t I mention that there’s a sub-ruleset called Item Standard Play? It’s an alternative ruleset that allows items:
Anyways, the Smash community *did *look into how items worked, but for tournament play it was decided that they were too random to include (unfortunately EVO didn’t think this…). You can’t use stage control if you have no idea where you should control the stage. It doesn’t matter if you know when an item is going to spawn if your opponent’s closer to where it will spawn anyways. That kind of thing promotes randomness, which has little place in a competitive setting. Not to mention the fact that a lot of items are overpowered.
We should drop Brawl from this discussion as it’s off-topic, though.
in OP’s case I don’t think the organizer had any choice but to do it if he wanted to run the tournament,
I mean what? 10 entrants? if 6 or 8 of them don’t like playing giants what are you going to do? You can’t run a tournament with only 2 people.
Otherwise, giants being broken (which they are not) or boring are bullshit reasons to ban them IMO and had the TvC community been bigger and much more active, this would most likely not have not been the case.
Giants are not broken and are boring to play against, breaking the game’s mechanics or not, many other characters in other fighting games are that way and people manage to adapt their playstyle to them.
I see some people pulling out the “play to win” card, the “boring is not a good reason” card, and the “the way the developers intended” card. And saying “deal with it.”
But actually theres a much bigger issue that you have to “deal with”. The “play to win” of running a tournament, especially a for-profit one.
If you have two tournaments, and one bans some characters, and ends up getting more participants, then you can’t blame them for doing so. If a tournament organiser can get a bigger turnout by setting some rules/bans, then obviously that’s the game people want to play. Not the game mr-forum-elitist wants to play, nor the game the developers intended, but the game people want to play.
Of course, the reverse exists - maybe some characters are truly broken and make the game awful. But if they happen to be popular characters and you will lose players/viewers by banning them, then you leave them in. Ultimately events are for players to come together and enjoy themselves playing the games they want to play. There’s no point ramming some philosophical ideal down people’s throats for their own personal growth or something. Not over a video game.
a) Because it’s Marvel
b) Because he had some pretty solid counterpicks in other top-tiers like War Machine and Strider
c) Duo Team, while extremely powerful with GWM, can also be used against him. Just don’t let him build the meter before you do.
a) O. Sagat was never banned from any tournament anywhere at any time
b) It was the players PUTTING IN WORK, not character bans, that made most of the cast in ST viable. Why don’t you ask Damdai if the (non-existent) ban on O. Sagat is what turned T. Hawk from a laughable stereotype into a respectable contender in the US scene?
i blame games like cod actually, add to that that many of these new players that came with sf4 have been always between noobs and scrubbies calling zoning, turting and runaway tactics as gay, cheap or whatever
plus not having a good background in fighting games, so when they see a strong char (yun on ssf4ae) they confuse it with a broken one
imagine if those fuckers were to face a char like zato/eddie from GG (except slash where he sucks), they would rage against the heavens
lol Maybe smash IS the problem…Coming from that scene…I guess it made it to where I dont really mind “ridiculous” stuff like banning stages n such…But does that make me a scrub for not minding? Maybe the scrub is the person who decided to start banning left and right…not me.
…Or am I a scrub for even entertaining that type of playstyle/thought process? I just enjoy playing.
No, Thunda, it’s not like Smash just bans things all over the place with no rhyme and reason to it, they ban things that are obviously anti-competitive (e.g. Icicle Mountain in Melee, Warioware in Brawl) and give deep consideration to borderline cases (like Rainbow Cruise or Norfair in Brawl). People do not ban what they don’t like (that notion is just ridiculous), simply what should not be present in a competitive setting.
I played competive smash. I only play SSf4 now. However there is no scene in my immediate area so I cant really say I play SF competitively…However I play the game like I do.(lol I know…I just really enjoy SF)
SF has taught me that “Play to win” mentality you guys keep screaming…But like I said before: I dont mind if people ban “Overpowered” chars…Hell, Odd’s are you can whoop the kids asses who say that anyway.
You guys ever get some scrub sayn: “All you do is dive kick and rush down fagg!”…Then you pick your secondary and kick there asses with fireballs…Was it right to handicap yourself with those rules? No. But In the end those Rules didnt even matter cause you’re a better player.
In then you could say “Well it’s serous bidness when my money is involved. I should be able to win how I want”
Then dont F’n enter a tourney with dumb rules like that. Tell ya buddies to not enter too…but if people want to play the game by cutting a peice out of it…then fine…I just wont play with them…hell switch to a new game if need be.
EDIT: The more I think about it the more the side of “Too cheap” and “Deal with it” seem the same…You guys are both trying to enforce some sorta “way” to correctly play the game…I dont think there is one…You just play. For money, For fun. Whatever.
I don’t know didn’t geif win evo, didnt blanka also win evo a few years back, didn’t duc win with spiral? Isn’t mvc3 pretty balanced? And I still think mk9 is a pretty balanced game, though the low tiers in mk9 will get some patches latter on. And back then fighting games didn’t have patches, so now its going to be hard to judge fighting games because there going to keep changing all the time
There is a difference. If someone puts in the time and effort to play the giants with skill, then they should be rewarded for it.
And only one of those two actually rewards. The other rewards people who whine about something rather than learning to deal with it.
Can you guess which is which?
People are still looking way too much into it. Nobody banned the giants because they’re boring (I’m the one who brought up that they’re just boring characters anyways, but still repeatedly saying that there shouldn’t have been a ban), it was a small tourney that would have gotten more people entering if they were banned (prolly the same few guys from the royalflush scene that initiated the first ban at his locals) than if they werent. It wasn’t anything more than that. There was no debate like: “OH WE SHOULDNT BAN STUFF BECAUSE THATS BAD FOR THE COMMUNITY!” “NO, BAN THEM BECAUSE OF (WHATEVER REASON)”.
It was a one time thing for a game thats way past it’s prime. If there were this many people that cared about tvc that joined the tourney at evo, im sure there wouldn’t have been an issue at all. I’m not supporting the ban, but I think people are making a way bigger deal about it than it actually was. I’ve had tourneys with more than 12 people at my house before. The TvC community (aka the 10-12 people there) were pretty tight knit, with everyone there mostly knowing each other, and the tourney wasn’t even meant to be a super serious big deal, its mostly that everyone just wanted to play and see some good tourney matches among for an otherwise dead game. If people are thinking “oh the TvC community just lost my support/respect for this!”, my response would be “Did you even seriously care about TvC and stuff before this thread was posted?”
Either way, if this garners more attention for TvC and makes more people want to play TvC at evo next year, then we can promise no bans on giants!
I haven’t read the whole thread, so if it derailed then w/e.
People hated giants because playing against giants wasn’t playing TvC. It was like playing against a boss in MK9 or something. It was fucking stupid and ruined the game for everyone except the giant player.
Playing against a giant is the equivalent of playing against a guy in Halo with constant Overshield, Rockets, and half walk speed. Sure you can still win by outplaying them but you aren’t playing the real game anymore.
