Why Do People Play 'Broken' Characters:In Defense of Character Selection

I don’t see why this is a problem, though. It’s not like we’re against people playing how they like for casual play, it’s just that for tournament play a certain ruleset is needed in order to make the game competitively viable. I mean, I don’t know about you, but if I’m taking a match seriously I’d rather not play on Time or Coins or with items on.

Besides, Smash players still play to win anyways.

Wow, I feel sorry that you had to experience such a bad first tournament. Don’t let that leave a negative impression on you, though. Once you go to a tournament with a good ruleset I’m sure you’ll have a blast.

Ugh, it was painful to read that post of the TO, but it’s also hilarious at the same time.

Top tiers typically have more options, right? More options = More fun.

Plus, people like playing good characters.

I’d like to know this as well.

Then why not just ban the bombs/explosives only instead of 100% of the items?

The giants were mid tier at best.

I actually don’t remember WW’s tiers, but I’m pretty sure Guile was top or near the top.

The problem is this comes down to the “Backroom” mentality of just letting the TOs decide. The fact of the matter is, the ban was a stupid and pointless one that show how weak the community was - so it’s natural that it’s going to get called out.

Because as long as Items are allowed, then the special class of items that can spawn which contain other items will as well. Oftentimes, these containers, or “capsules” explode upon being attacked or thrown, and they can spawn anywhere and anytime on the stage as long as items are enabled.

It has happened often enough that during important matches that one of these would spawn into an attack and kill the player on their last stock. So the scene decided to ban items.

Umm, no. While general consensus is that Lightan is the worst in the game, PTX was considered quite high by many players. He had a couple bad matchups but also a handful of matchups that were completely in his favor. PTX has a nasty 50/50 game, ToD combos in the corner, immunity to Megacrash, ability to wavedash, a super armored tackle, unblockables, and an inescapable unblockable on an incoming character that leads into a lvl 3 for 32k damage. Nothing about him is middle tier. And again there is still some confusion in this thread about why the giants were banned.

**Giants were not banned because they were a dominant force in TvC. **
Anyone who played the game seriously would have known that. There was just no way to be consistent with the giants when there were multiple hard counters to them in this game.

Giants were not banned because they were boring.
Do you honestly think the community cares anything about what some dipshit stream monsters have to say about this game? The same stream monsters that shat all over this game because it had a burst mechanic? Lame ass characters exist in any game and giants are no exception, in fact I think fighting against Saki is twice as lame as fighting against a giant. If some people left the game because the giants were lame then thats their problem not the community.

**Giants did not “split” the community **
The rumor that giants split the community is a complete lie. For the longest time people have learned to live the giants. People who quit the game because of the giants will not be missed, we didn’t want to deal with your whiny ass anyways. Oh boohoo, Marn and Justin quit the game because they didn’t like the giants, hint they didn’t even like the game to begin with. The common misconception is that TvC died because of the giants and that is completely false. The real killer of the game was MvC3 and its much larger community. Giants are to TvC as X Factor/Dark Phoenix is to Marvel 3. People complained about both but have learned to deal with it.

Giants were not officially banned at all
RoyalFlush banned the giants at his tourneys because some of regulars were really contemplating on not coming if the giants were allowed (more on that later). Can you really blame the guy for trying to keep his scene running? The tourneys were already pretty small averaging out at usually 10-12 entrants, and it honesly didn’t even matter because none of the regulars mained the giants in the first place. Please refer to this thread for his reasoning on the ban: For the remainder of TvC tournaments in SoCal.... I AM BANNING GIANTS! But as it stands, giants were only banned for tournaments run by RoyalFlush in SoCal. Regular tournament rules allow the use of giants. The ban on giants for this particular side-tourney was purely up to the TO (yourmother) so bring this up to him.

Giants were looked down upon because of the counter pick issue
Like I’ve stated above, giants had some absolutely ridiculously skewed matchups in their favor. We are talking about 9.5-0.5 bad. No matter how good you are with Roll, you are not doing jack shit against PTX and you might as well just die so your next character has a bunch of meter. This creates a problem in a tournament environment as people playing certain team combinations are forced to pretty much give game 1 and switch to an appropriate counter pick team which creates the second problem in that the giant player can now switch to a regular team and sweep you since you are probably not familiar with your giants counter-pick team. While instances of this were rare, they have happened before (Keits pretty much stealing a win off RyRy at Evo).

I don’t like how people who have never played TvC at a competitive level (or at all for that matter) are coming in here and talking like they actually know the game. Playing against the giants, no playing against PTX (Lightan was never the problem) is not something that can be compared to. You can’t just bring up characters like 3S Chun and expect a fair comparison because giants have completely different mechanics and play by a completely different set of rules. Likewise you can’t compare the giants to ST Akuma or whatever ridiculously broken character as they were banned for completely different reasons. Giants were an experimental character design that is exclusive to TvC so it was a very tricky matter to deal with. And I know I’m going to get a bunch of replies from players that will still use these comparisons. I really wish we can get RoyalFlush to comment on this matter so we can listen to his exact reasoning because as of now people are only looking this issue in one direction.

Someone brought up Mech Zangief and Gold War Machine, who ARE a fair comparison, and in GWM’s case actually was a dominant character.
He was never banned. Not even “soft” banned.

So what’s your excuse, now?

Still not a legitimate reason to ban them.

Then let’s compare them to the top 4 in ST. O. Sagat (who apparently wasn’t softbanned in Japan) had a similar matchup situation where he absolutely raped half the cast and lost to the other half. Heck, ST was full of cases where characters had 9:1 both in their favor and against them and that game was fine.

There is nothing wrong with counter picking. The mind games start at the select screen, not before, that has been the case for these games for the longest time now.

I’ll admit you got me there, I don’t know all too much about MvC1 since I started playing fighting games in 2009 (there goes my credibility) so please excuse my lack of knowledge on some things. I just wanted to point out that people are making wrong comparisons by stating some of the characters used in my post. Can you fill me in on why GWM was not banned because a character that mobile running around with permanent hyper armor seems pretty retarded to me.

But the banning of O. Sagat allowed many other characters to actually become viable at a tournament scene. This is the same case with the giants as certain team combinations now became usable. Maybe this is just a difference of opinion. I can understand how some people want to play their games with the standard rules and thats a perfectly reasonable opinion. Though I think you can understand how some people want a fair representation of skill instead of counterpicks up the ass. This seems to be a common difference of opinions between OG fighting game players and 09’ers like me.

And let me just restate that I’ve never agreed with the banning of the giants but I just want to play the devil’s advocate here and state why banning them might be somewhat justifiable.

If the guy to my left doesn’t “respect” me for using a cheap/really good character I couldn’t give a shit. He probably sucks anyways.

Sorry if I like to use good characters and not a squirell with no limbs.

In hindsight, I shouldn’t have used respect or fair, that was my bad wording and just screams scrub all over. Let me reword it:

I don’t have a problem with counter-picking. I understand that we are all playing to win so go ahead and pick the giants to win a match because I never had a problem with it. The main difference some people are missing is that playing against the giants is either a case of you having the tools or you dieing. Yes, Super Gief v. Seth is ridiculously lopsided but I still have a chance because my tools work against him. I just think its a little bit retarded that some characters have no options against the giants. I guess I’m a little bias because I had to drop my original team of Polimar/Soki because PTX bodied me for free.

I honestly hope the TVC players realize in this topic isn’t just aimed them, it’s aimed at everybody banning characters for no logical reason. You are not the only people that getting put on blast. There is a lot of conversational shit that should be discussed in this topic.

For example, did you know that DLC characters were banned in MK9 at EVO because the time of their realase?


http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?7184-Skarlet-Banned-Evo-(All-DLC-officially-banned-for-Evo-2011)
After EVO, they were unbanned. The point of this scenario is…to show a completely different problem of the Giants/Smash/Hilde debate.

This scenario deserves some discussion as well…

Fair and honor are bottom-tier, that’s why I dropped them.

Was Vega’s old stage that allowed him to climb on the wall banned?

Just curious. I always thought it an odd thing to include in a game.

Also, how about the multi-tiered stages in X-Men:COTA, MSH, XvSF, etc., Don’t they allow combos that are otherwise impossible?

I don’t recall any stages whatsoever banned in any Capcom game (or any other fighter for that matter).

I’m not arguing for or against, but that seems really strange to me. Having Vega climb all over the fence changes how he can be played, but only on that one stage. If you are the Vega player, you must need different strategies and set ups depending on where you end up fighting.

As for the multi-tiered VS game stages, I wouldn’t have expected much could be done with them, but I have seen combo videos that rely on breaking the floor to continue beating the shit out of someone all the way down.

Just another set of “deal with it” situations. Since arcade was the competitive standard during the heydays of those games, people just adapted.

Trudat. Can you imagine the hassle of returning to character selection without a pause menu lol.

Nobody ever banned O.gat…

Sorry to drag Smash back in this, but this was a problem in Melee, however in Brawl, those explosive crates and containers can be turned OFF, and as such using this as an excuse to ban items in Brawl is flat out wrong.
Also, items have set spawn points on the various stages and although which spawn point is used is random, the timing for the drops is a consistent algorithm(about every 10-12 seconds on the Medium setting, I believe).

Yeah, you won’t know where, but you will know when an item will drop, so a new layer of depth and strategy can be applied revolving around things like stage control and the risk/reward of going for item drops or not. Sounds like a pretty interesting game… Too bad the Smash Community never bothered to actually test these things rather than copy/paste rules from an almost completely different game.

Sorry for the long, off-topic post, but I hate when people go around spouting misinformation. If you’re going to argue a point, at the very least learn shit about your own damn game…