I’m sorry but that shit sounds fun as hell.
I would die fucking laughing if I could pull that shit off.
God I hate your community 
.
The problem with that example, bkfst_sausage, is that you have no control over whether Falco gets a Green Shell or not.
Let’s say that, for whatever reason, Green Shells are allowed one tournament. You play against a Falco and get him to his last stock. You manage to do some damage on him before you lost your 2nd (let’s say 40%). You come back and managed to get yourself grabbed, so he d-throw chain-grabs you to a d-air off-stage, doing about 55%. Now, while you’re recovering, a Green Shell randomly spawns right next to Falco. Then Falco decides to do that infinite thing with it to time out the match. What are you supposed to do about that? How could you combat something like that? A game should never be decided on something so random.
It’s not even comparable to your other examples, bkfst_sausage, because they’re not random. Items are not comparable to X-Factor, Ultras, or anything like that because of the same reasons. We allow items like Diddy’s Bananas, Peach’s Turnips, R.O.B.'s Gyros, etc. because those characters have full control of when to use those items. Let me tell you, if Falco could somehow spawn a Green Shell willingly it’d actually be a lot better than having the game decide to spawn items for you. Heck, in general, I bet if items could be specifically controlled then they’d be allowed.
Those things happened in MvC2… There’s a Gambit and a Ruby Heart glitch that put them off the screen until the timer wears itself down.
Those are banned, but people forget they’re there.
As for infinites in MvC2, the only boring one is Ironman. Very few infinites are actually done with the intent of dealing damage because of it. Storm’s infinite on Sentinel, and using the Rom when an opponent has less than 15% life are examples. Other than that, there’s only a very limited number of uses infinites have to deal damage with.
Marvel 2 as a game is random as fuck… Just sayin.
As posted above, the difference here is that these are completely random. Whether or not an item spawns in front of you isn’t part of something you control, whereas Magneto always has his ROM, Storm can also jump beyond your reach, characters always have their bullshit. Or would you prefer it if Magneto can only trijump some of the time, and so your wins are completely dependent on whether or not your lucky?
I haven’t played Brawl in two years, so I don’t know what the community’s ideology is anymore, nor am I part of the community, but none of the stuff I mentioned requires any tech skill, its all rediculously easy, so you’d probably die laughing the first match, then get really bored when every single match looks exactly the same.
They would ban ruby heart as soon as they figured out the taunt glitches. Ban Iceman taking no chip from projectiles and say Megaman is the best in the game.
Marvel has it’s times when it can be based on luck. If MSP gets the first hit (luck, thanks to the switch glitch), it typically wins, so long as there’s not a significant difference in skill levels. Look at Justin Wong in 7th place last Season’s beatings. He couldn’t beat Chris’s MSP - partly his own ignorance, quite honestly, but that’s besides the point. MSP is that wildcard that if you get a lucky card at the start of the match, your opponent starts with 2 characters.
Ironman gets the random (and War Machine gets it a LOT more) thing where his super hits 3 times instead of 30. They get hit, bounce up, fall, get hit again, bounce up, fall, and get hit once more.
or what about the random sometimes that Makoto will slip out of Chun’s SA2 in 3S… It happens randomly, and you can use a program pad to test it… sometimes Makoto will have a lucky day and just not get hit by the super…
The amount of times Sentinel can unfly is also random at 4-5 times (MvC2)
Super Turbo’s dizzy system is somewhat random.
Would you really rather have that random Makoto drop out of super than not have it, if you had the ability to turn it off?
EDIT: I also want everyone to keep in mind I’m not defending the choice to want them banned at Evo, since at that time none of these item shenanigans had been discovered, and there was never any intention of testing them.
That’s the literal excitement of your game, and why it feels hindered when you take that away.
The thrill of running to get that item, the strategy that goes into implementing it, the defense that goes into dodging it, these are all things that make Smash, Smash.
When you take that away, no matter how much it is really is based on luck, you strip the game of its originality and shove it into a mold that the rest of you perceive to be competitively acceptable. Perhaps the game is better regulated like that, but then it’s in the same playing field as everything else out there instead of standing on its own ground.
Why don’t you just play Poker, then? Its a bit less luck based than Smash with items on, I guess.
I would really have the randomness. It adds an edge-of-your seat, “what’s going to happen” atmosphere to the game and makes it more exciting. If I lose because my SA dropped and Makoto smacks me before it, oh well, I lost. It’s part of the game, and changing that is ridiculous.
Keep in mind, you ARE arguing with a crowd of people that want arcade perfection, regardless of balance. Rebalancing a game is like burning a Bible in church… you just don’t do it. Those imperfections are what are so loved about the game… those little niches that cause you to come back and play more. If I lost because of my super dropping Makoto out of it, the first thing out of my mouth is “RUN THAT SHIT BACK” and I want to play again.
Would you keep that idea if you lost Evo because of it? I understand what you’re getting at, and Smash with items is certainly more fun than without, but if randomness can be turned off for the purposes of a tournament, so that the better players beat the worse more consistently, then I think that it definitely should.
Ok, last time
YES. End of story. I want the game to be as the game was released. No changes.
There have been matches that have been “Should haves” in Marvel with all the bullshit blue screens on the Dreamcast, in the top 8 at Evolution, and it was allowed, as the players just rolled with it.
I’ve only ever seen a match reset ONCE because of a blue screen in MvC2. Worst time for it to happen, right before you get HGxxTemp… Throws your mashing way the fuck off.
In smash there is certain spawn points and the game does spawn them the furthest away from players as possible like a spawn point in a fps. Sometimes this doesn’t work like in a fps and an item is close.
Items in Worms spawn completely random and I don’t see the community going ninja rope, bazooka, and grenades only on a few pre-made stages. Hell in worms the stages are randomly generated.
There aren’t actually certain spawn points, they can spawn anywhere on a stage. Its entirely random. If there were actually just certain spawn points, I’d be much more in favour of it.
But its released with the option to change it in it. If chess had dice rolls for when you tried to take a queen to make the game more exciting for the casuals (as items do in this case), I don’t think anyone would play with it during tournaments.
You didn’t answer the second part of my statement.
Unrelated note: You don’t deserve that Lilith avatar. I will beat your ass in vsav or the horrible vsav2.
Ok, you asked me about 3S, and I’m giving you an answer on 3S… The game was NOT released with it in it. It was an arcade game. It was a glitch in the game. If you’re talking about ports, then that’s a whole different ballpark, and to keep a port as close to the arcade as possible, you don’t change it.
As for the randomness… honestly, have you never played a board game with dice? A table top game, perhaps? Craps? Scrabble? These games are entirely random. Even MTG is random to a certain degree, as you don’t control which cards you draw. You get your tools. You can only do so much with it. If I’m playing Quiddler and I get X, Y, and Z, and need to make a word, looks like I’m fucked this round, doesn’t it… You can’t control what you get in Craps at all, and people put THOUSANDS on it.
I don’t know how things work in Worms since I’ve never seen anyone play it for more than shits and giggles, so I can’t comment.
EDIT: Alright, I’m backing out of this before things get anymore heated, but I can’t really believe people are actually advocating for randomness when you have the option to not have it.
because randomness doesnt necesarily means a bad thing as many people want to believe
im part of 2 other competitive comunities with random factors in the games
racing games and football soccer games
on those 2 genres you have many random factors
on the racing games you have the traffic, wich is generated randomly
on the soccer games, you have the mental and phisical condition of the team members, plus the weather
those factors have a big impact on the game and how do you play it, yet you dont see those elemnts being shunned down because they are random
More consistent at the cost of depth and what makes the game a compelling product in the first place. So no. If you’re worried about consistency, add another stock.
If the majority thought items were what made it compelling, then they would be playing with items on now. I could say I found ST compelling because Akuma was a really cool character, after all. The depth part is also arguable, but since the items-on metagame never really got anywhere, its hard to know for sure, but it probably would just end up Metaknights still doing Metaknight things, but with items also spawning whilst that’s happening.
I can’t say for sure here since I’m not involved in those games, but the way you describe it makes it sound like the random elements are much less drastic than they would be with items on in Brawl. It’d be more like playing racing games with random blue shells in them than just random traffic.