His posts are funny if you’ve ever come across his SF4 bashing posts tho 
Yeah, sorry. Just get so frustrated at these guys. Shouldn’t let emotions get in the way…but damn.
it’s the warranted scrutiny that got me. My opinion is just opinion and so is his and everyone else in here. The only way opinions would be fact is if EVERYONE felt the exact same way, which will NEVER happen. He made his comment as if the parry is a definite bad mechanic of the game, and now it is at the point that he, myself, and everyone else in here has worn out this topic and now it’s all name-calling and ridiculous rebuttal.
I’m not speaking from what I’ve seen, i’m speaking from experience.
This is not true at all. There is no “enormous risk”. The “risk” associated with a parry is no different that the risk of trying to poke at the wrong time(even less actually). Sure it can be punished, but generally when it fails what’s the drawback? Well if the opponent isn’t attacking into a incorrect parry the risk is literally nothing.
Compare that to other defensive options in previous SF’s. You whiff a DP/DP type move and it’s free punish for the opponent.
You don’t move forward with a down parry.(not to mention a step forward is hardly a significant drawback) Alot of moves in 3s can be down parried and forward parried. And the BnB stuff is mostly just down parry.
Sure. I never said there was zero drawback, just very little. And compared to previous SF games, negligible.
I actually play the game, so I’m not speaking from a view that you describe.
Succinctly and beautifully stated. :smokin:
You and Dr. B are truly boons upon SRK, specs. :tup:
There is no enormous risk? That’s like saying it’s no big deal in any fighting game to get hit with any hit confirm. Of course there’s risk. One chain by Yun and 50% of your life is gone. Hell, most players just need a crouching forward to do whatever they want to you.
And if you’re playing guessing games with a parry most players will just throw you, use a multi-hit move or command grab you. Such are mixups. Are you sure you want to be tapping forward and down at your leisure when Makoto dashes in or Yun dives in? No way.
Huh. I found the jump back but didn’t think to immediately go into back flip. So there you go. If Chun ever tries to chip-damage ultra kill you, you have a way out. I love stuff like this - having to think of character-specific ways to deal with certain situations.
I had a friend who was a big 3S fan, so I tried to get into it so I could play with him. I played for a few years, but then he moved away and we didn’t have so many occasions to play anymore. I spent my time with it, learning the ins and outs and all that but it never really clicked with me.
I’d say the hate comes from a lot of polarization. ST fans say that 3S is just about guessing; 3S fans say that ST is just about fireballs, the two sides get riled up and things get out of control. I do wish that Capcom would continue the series and call it something other than SF - again, not to take away from the 3 series, but just to acknowledge how different it is. Maybe if they weren’t both called Street Fighter then people wouldn’t feel compelled to compare them.
Yeah, I switched the game to IV because I’d long since wondered if Daigo might have had some other options besides parry, but after reading some other posts in this thread it looks like the answer is no. It’s kind of hard to think about that situation without parry, because obviously parry is a part of the game, and I have to wonder if SAII would have been programmed differently without it. Conversely, if Chun does her super in IV and you aren’t already clear…you’re screwed. I’ve done super for chip damage, and the opponent was maybe reading my intention and had already started to jump - you could see the character starting to leave the ground during super freeze and Chun STILL nails them. The tradeoff though is that Chun has to sacrifice a lot just to get full super bar.
You’re right, a teleport would be better. I was primarily thinking along the lines of escape vs reversal and how that relates to parry.
I wouldn’t say that parry is the always the best option…just that sometimes, it is. But regardless, I have to fight around it because if I don’t I lose to it. Some of similar to DP FADC - its not always the best option, but when its in play I have to respect it. When many people complain about IV, they complain about DP FADC and how they have to always fight around it. Which is true, but with DP FADC, at least that’s only for certain characters and in certain conditions. Parry is with everyone, always.
But then that comes to this…
Fair enough. I like not having that universal tool, and having to rely on character-specific knowledge. Even if that means some characters are better equipped to deal with the situation than others. Even if I’m in that position where the odds don’t play in my favor - it means I have to work hard to not get put in that position, and if I do then I have to find ways out of it. But this is all just player preference, not to say one is better or worse than the other.
Yeah, comparing iterations of SF is almost sort of pointless. Play what you like. Its nice that the system varies enough to give us this diversity.
No, there is no risk that is parry specific. A parry itself has no real drawback. Your argument amounts to nothing more than pointing out it is possible to exploit a parry and therefore that=risk. That risk exists with anything that makes you lose block - pokes, specials, being dumb. However unlike a parry most moves have a real measurable drawback. Negative frames and huge opportunity to punish. That does not exist with a parry, which is the point.
To paraphrase Stewie Griffin: It’s like you’re fucking five.
Wrong. Opinions are personal takes on subjective matters. Warranted scrutiny doesn’t suddenly become unwarranted just because you say it does. And, by your logic, since some people think rain dancing is real, rain dancing can’t NOT be real. I suck at 3S and I’m no pro at any other fighter but I’m sure as hell not losing a battle of wits to a dude who’s the human embodiment of this list.
I do try. 
The parry input itself is not a risk. If you input a parry and there’s nothing to parry, the parry doesn’t come out.
Let’s compare a RL scenario to SF here: Artayes’s continued stupidity.
If you notice, you’ll see that Artayes has backed himself into a corner, pressured there by thoughtful pokes and space control. Now, Artayes is a RL scrub, so he fails to calmly assess the situation, gets frustrated, and leaves himself open to repeated pressure that keeps him cornered. Eventually, he loses the match, since, well, that’s what happens when you put yourself in a disadvantageous situation repeatedly and without fail.
Now, let’s say Artayes, through some SRK oversight, had moderator powers, but could only enact them within a certain window of a post he finds offensive being… well, posted. Suddenly, he’s able to remove these threats keeping him cornered, and he’s a champion!
Sleepy.
Dr. B and Char Aznable yadda yadda yadda Boner Gundam.
aw, too bad your friend moved away. You could of had a lot more fun if you guys could still be playing 3S. But to be fair, playing just a couple years on and off with your friend isn’t really that much experience. It is a little, but in the overall scheme of things not that much compared to many/ almost all 3S players.
and also, why take the SF out of the SF 3 series? it kind of contradicts your last point which we should end this thread with.
Parries made SF3 very polarizing back when it dropped.
Also, people thought we were gettinga Cyber Sagat or something.
the only people i’ve met that hate the parry are people that can’t do it. they’ve been owned so hard in 3s for the past TEN YEARS, that they’d defend ANY piece of shit game capcom threw their way so long as there’s no parry in it, case in point: SF4.
being able to parry is incredibly liberating and allows you to turn the tide of the match at any point, so long as you have the SKILL to do so, as opposed to 4, where you can turn the tide at any point (unless you’re waiting for your opponent’s 20-minute blockstring to finish) thanks to the welfare meter you get FOR GETTING YOUR ASS KICKED.
the thing about parrying, is you have to really be on your game and you can’t rely on cheese to win. the people that hate it are slow, scared, or both.
scared: they won’t do a move unless it’s “safe” and nothing in 3s is safe. since nothing is safe, they can’t decide what to do, so they freeze and lose.
slow: they don’t have the forethought capabilities to bait moves, and don’t have the reflexes to parry on reaction.
another thing that a lot of 3s haters lack is RHYTHM. 3s is almost a music game in some aspects, a lot of multi-hit moves (super fireballs, tatsumakis, etc) require near perfectly spaced time between parries. if you’re nervous or slow, chances are you can’t stay on beat either (which would probably peg you as a shitty lay on top of it all).
long story short, if you can parry, it’s fun, it’s amazing, it’s exciting. if you can’t, you’re really gonna have a hard time in 3s, and probably life as well. if you practice enough to be able to participate in high-level 3s, i guarantee you’ll enjoy it more than high-level sf4.
edit: just watch some high-level match videos of both, 3s is consistently faster-paced, matches go back & forth like crazy, but it’s always the better player that wins. sf4 matches drag on for as long as possible. i’ve never seen a game with so many time up “victories” and most matches are decided by a welfare combo designed to help NEWBIE players make a comeback, feel special, and keep buying more SF games. 3s may have a game-changing mechanic that radically alters gameplay, but at its core, it’s more SF than 4.
It was a rhetorical question of incredulity. Of course there’s risk, because there is hit confirms. It’s safer to block than to parry.
Yeah, I know. I tried to keep it up after he moved away, but then in order to play people I’d have to go to a Japanese arcade and…yeah. By this point the people playing were the ones who’d been playing for years. I’d get dismantled pretty bad. So I came to the point where I had to decide if I was going to dedicate myself to get better, or just drop it altogether. I went for the latter. I didn’t like the game enough to the point where I wanted to dedicate the time to get better at it. To be fair, I made the same decision for CvS2 - I’d been playing CvS2 since it came out and had dedicated A LOT of time to it. Even before coming to Japan, I started to dislike it for a number or reasons, and then coming here I couldn’t find the motivation to improve. So maybe timing/location just wasn’t on my side with the game, but I never really vibed with it.
I say SF3 should get its own series because - well, look what happened with IV. Up until the announcement of Dudley/Ibuki/Makoto SF3 had gotten pretty much ignored in the sequel. And of course then there were the people who were like “what happened to parries/selectable super arts?” Even with Dudley and company in Super 4, if they don’t really play like their 3S counterparts I can see people being unhappy about that. This is kinda true for the Alpha characters as well, but I imagine they are closer to IV’s system than the 3S guys are.
(Although, most of the characters don’t really play like any previous iteration of themselves anyway…)
So if the 3 series was a solid fighting game with a dedicated fanbase (which does appear so), rather than try to gimp its characters into another system, keep that same system going and just make a sequel off it. I don’t think making SFV based off the 3 series would be a good idea - all the people who came in on IV are going to be like “WTF is this?” Maybe even give it the Alpha treatment, and call it Street Fighter Somethingortheother - not quite a sequel. And people can enjoy it for what it is without feeling the need to compare it to Street Fighter #. In the same way we don’t get into heated arguments about SF Vs Darkstalkers or Rival Schools, because we recognize they’re different series.
Block is the least risky thing you can do, so pointing out that a parry has more risk does nothing to disprove my point.
well, the problem with SF III getting its own series is that some nerds like me actual follow the story. I enjoy the charatcers quite a bit and my favorites are in the 3S cast. It’s too late for that now anyways but I understand why some may want it that way. and yes, I am looking forward to seeing Ryu trained by Oro if it ever happens.
Think about it, though, SFV will probably be the sequel to SF III but with returning characters from alpha and SFIV. It will most likely be a different system as well and play differently than all the other SFers. You may not think SFIII/SFII/SFIV debate would happen anymore but it would. If only it ends up being SFII/SFIV debate. then what? is SFII or SFIV not going to be a SF game now as well? they are all SF games and hopefully SFIV will keep leading to SFIII.
But the main is like you have made it clear, everyone should play what they like. If there is a noob asking about any of the games, only the players that are well-experienced in said game should be the ones to give advice. it’s not all biased anyways, as like you said as well, players in any particular game can recognize certain flaws that they may have with the game but still love and play it anyways.
Eh, reading the past few pages on this thread, I can see a lot better why people aren’t into parries moreso than past threads regarding this issue. And I’m glad to see BETTER arguments regarding why parries in 3S are good this time around.
Honestly though, it does come down to personal preference. For me, it’s actually pretty funny because once I got a lot better at 3rd Strike, I started to appreciate Super Turbo a lot more. I learned the basics of footsies, zoning, blocking and maneuvering through certain situations from 3S, and applied it to Super Turbo with some decent results. I’m no top player, but I’m not terrible either. If I put more effort into learning more of the matchups in ST then I’d probably get far, but I’m satisfied with 3S because there’s more competition for it in my area.
I still enjoy 3S a lot more though. I love that parries DO add a whole new different set of mind games that aren’t based on traps or loops(save for some exceptions like Urien and Oro’s unblockables). There are the type of mindgames I wouldn’t be able to find in the past SF games, and that’s what I love about 3S. Of course there is guess parrying, and yeah it’s pretty frustrating to lose to luck like that. But it just comes with the territory, and there are more pros to it than cons. And there may be no huge risk in parrying in 3S in most cases if the players are capable of doing so, but for certain other characters like Hugo, there is a huge risk given the right situations.
But yeah, I’ve come to terms that it’s not for everybody. I may piss on SF4 a lot, but that doesn’t mean I’m gonna piss on the players because the best all put in the time and effort to get where they are. Same with any game, really…
And to be honest, I always hated Viscant’s posts not because of whether or not he was right(which I do admit some of his points are), but because he WAS putting down 3rd Strike players. I’m not gonna take being shitted on because of somebody not enjoying parries and thinking everyone who does like them doesn’t know shit about fighting games, regardless of whether he’s a top fighting game player or not.
With SFIII already taking place in the future, it wouldn’t be hard to throw a future SFIII-based game a few more years ahead to separate it. Ibuki could be on the verge of graduating from college - Sean could be fleshed out into a more complete fighter, etc. In some ways, I think that would be more interesting.
It would also be interesting to have a SF3 Sakura - with a changed gameplay style that’s a bit closer to shoto. She could be the Ryu to Sean’s Ken. But Capcom doesn’t seem to be interested in her being anything other than a schoolgirl who kicks high.
…I can’t really see Capcom going III style for V. Especially since bringing back the old characters and keeping it simple worked for IV. They still think that the reason SF3 initially failed was because parries were too hard. To be honest though, I have no idea how Capcom would approach V (if it ever does get made). I mean, by Namco standards Super 4 is already V.
It’ll be interesting to see what happens though.
I find this discussion odd - I don’t really think there’s a way to compare the landscape of vintage street fighters and third strike. This would presumably be the natural progression of the system. 3s didn’t only introduce parrys, it also greatly enhanced the general system that the characters run on. Dashing made faster walk speed somewhat less useless. Teching throws marginalized tick throw setups. Super jumps created multiple aerial angles a person can come in from. EX MOVES created things like fireballs that can go through other fireballs and more importantly gave most characters a worthwhile reversal which does much to remove largely disadvantagious situations. In ST there are a number of “BS” situations that are simply hard to get out of because characters don’t have the tools to get out of them. Talk to the guy on the recieving end of a vega loop, or a gief trying to puncture a bunkered honda. This does create a large NUMBER of styles, IE honda has no fireball and must create a method of bypassing them - whether this is good or not I suppose has much to do with the viewer. To me this does make it more methodical and there is definitely merit for those who put in the effort in the past to learn what they could do without the ever faithful backdash or parry or activation, but is it really ok to keep looking at the past with such wistful eyes?
Onto the topic, parry’s. They’re not the most…eloquent thing ever since they created a response, a POWERFUL response, to something rather integral to fighting games: getting hit. I prefer SCs version which lets you parry even if you have been parried, but its still a lot of fun to play with. If you know what direction you’re gonna get hit, you get to screw the opponent sideways; HOW EXCITING! So while I mourn the loss I think the focus attack is a much better way of handling it. Limited responses from it and riskier. In short parry’s were fun but admittedly a dominating aspect of the game. The best characters were those that bypassed it in someway. Yun/Chun/Urien were all able to create exceptional risky parry situations, Ken/Makoto/Dudley had lopsided 50/50s.
SF4 is a nice balance between the two concepts me thinks.
P.S.
SSF4 for arcades!
P.P.S
Srsly Capcom don’t make me come over there
I’m pretty sure this thread is long past it’s sell-by date… At least as far as newbie-related questions go.
85-90% of the time parrying is guessing, there are not many moves in 3S that you can “react” to. So most parries you see are just good guesses that get rewarded. Albeit it takes some focus and ability to somewhat read the opponents patterns(not everytime though) but nonetheless still a guess. Alot of the complaints 3S people have about SF4 is that it’s all about fireballs, turtle friendly, noob friendly, slow etc. They never give the game props for being a straight up game. There is hardly anything in SF4 that wasn’t meant to be put in. Everything is straight up in SF4. If you get hit by an ultra, or turtled to death or zoned to death etc… It’s your fault(or possibly bad match-up i.e Gief-Sagat). Honestly lets compare the broken shit in SF4 to the broken shit is 3S. SF4 has Sagat:pray: umm some people would argue Viper but she dies too easily same as with Akuma… Honestly the only thing I can come up with is Sagat and horrid match-ups. I can’t really just think of one specific thing that is just stupid broke and makes me grit my teeth other than a solid Sagat(meaning not a noob Sagat who just has good fb zoning and uses hk as an anti-air 90% of the time and never does cr.lk cr.lk cr.lp, tu). 3S has Chun:pray:, unblockables, seemingly infinite genei-jins, makoto two right guesses = stun or death or close to one and/or the other, random guessed right parry to take away a well fought and earned round(and please don’t compare that to a random or guessed right ultra, a parry is a simple movement of the stick forward or down, an Ultra is 6 inputs… and special moves are 3. That’s not included characters specifics) In 3s I could play absolutely perfect and be a god but I could still lose to someone who guesses right. That could be said about any fighting game but 3S is the only one that has that situation happening with a simple input of forward or down. I still love 3S mainly and mostly because of it’s combo system and the actual characters that are in the game. I still put the game high on my all-time list next to GG. I just find it kinda retarded for other 3S fans to hate and complain about SF4 so much and then turn around and say how awesome 3S is due to one feature in the game that SF4 doesn’t have. SF4 is a man’s game. Gimmicky shit will only get you so far before you run into someone that can land every link with their specific character consistently and just be a really solid beast both defensively and offensively. No parry to save your ass against them. The only way you’re gonna win is to stfu and use your skills and your brain and outplay them simple as that. If a person can’t respect that about SF4 then they just simple are biased or have some deep seeded reason why they’d never like the game in the first place.