Go back to capcom unity Artayes, nobody wants you here. I’m sure that place isn’t quite a cesspit without you.
why do they have to biased? With that logic, you could say that for EVERYTHING. I just mean if you are going to take any advice from anyone ,take it from experienced players.
Pro tip: Viscant was an experienced player (yes, of 3S) back when he wrote that.
Try again?
Yeah like Nyo explained earlier…anything that involved acutally throwing out a special move would have been instant death for Daigo. Chun’s super is so fucking stupid it’s ridiculous. If you’re real ballsy you can make it punish Yun whiffing c.MP’s to build meter. :lol: Like said before Chun’s super reaches the full other end of the screen in like less than 4 frames. That’s not even enough time to jump. I’ve lost plenty of matches in 3S just because a Chun Li fucked up their hit confirm into super and I tried to jump to get out of the way. That super was designed to beat most everything on the ground other than parry really.
I really don’t know why people like shoryu FADC if they really do like it that much. It’s not even interesting or has different dynamics to it that affect the gameplay offensively like parry did. Not saying that parry is the ideal way to play SF but even in a SF2 sense I don’t really see what shoryu FADC really does for the game on an offensive standpoint. All it does is force your opponent to not be allowed to press any buttons at all. They have to play a game where they must decide whether you are going for footsies or are going to bring out the big one to counter your footsies. Then the longer they hold on to the meter the more you have to worry since if you let them build up 3 and 4 meters that basically gives them 2 chances in the round to blast you with a 3 frame move that you have no offensive answer to.
It’s not like a parry where there’s a high and low aspect to it or how if you aren’t parrying anything you still have to utilize moves that whiff and have recovery. You just get in a range where you know your shoryu is likely not to whiff and let it rip. If they block…oh well you’re in their face or you backdash away. If they get hit…free damage for getting in their face with some shit that they have no offensive answers for. You can’t footsie or outpoke a shoryu…it just hits your shit and leads to an Ultra that has the execution requirements of blinking while thinking about blinking. Nobody needs that long of a time to land an Ultra after something that strips away that much of your offense and forces you to walk back and forth and well…block so you he can get in your face for free or allow Sagat to throw knees and shots more freely than he already can.
I like the way the FADC mechanic works within itself though people who like the ability to turn a 3 frame start up invincible move that’s mostly safe on block. It turns the game into more of a walking around and blocking kinda thing than actually engaging the opponent.
how experienced? how long did he play 3S? how about who really cares? his opinion is obviously of that because he hates 3S. and you want to know why his and seth Killian’s opinions mean so much to 3S haters? because they hate on 3S and they are supposed “gods” to these people. stop riding their nuts. I dislike them both because their opinions are worthless and it only shows by how they played the game and hated it because it wasn’t ST. Their oh Godly opinions have been rebuked and sent into their graves many times by experienced and pro 3S players.
I’m done, too many morons in this thread. at least I am done in the sense I won’t be responding to any more troll attempts. this argument is useless really. its been mentioned before that you either like something or you don 't. to each his own.
what gets me is these 3S haters that come in here and don’t even have a valid opinion themselves and have to ride someone else’s nuts only to “prove” to all of us that 3S sucks.
How is it possible for you type such verge-of-brain-death retarded shit, and still manage to formulate said dearth of worth into actual words?
T minus 1 moron, and counting.
You have to be pro at a game before deciding you dislike the title or any nuance therein.
@Artayes: Grasping at straws. Predictable. And parry-able.
Dr. B parries such useless things like “feelings.”
specs. your title and avatar fits perfectly with artayes’ negative-nancy attitude.
The other things at play here are that not every character has DP FADC Ultra. Really, there are only two (maaaaaybe 3 if we count Ken) characters where I’m worried about this. Even if I am fighting around meter, that changes for every character. Do I want Chun to burn one stock so she can’t use that buff super? Or do I want her to burn all of it so her best offensive and defensive options are taken away? If I can get Zangief under 3 bars, then no EX Hand FADC Safety. My primary worry against Dhalsim is his super. Etc.
To look at how it might matter which character he was using, let’s change the game. Let’s go IV. Your character has no life left, and Chun is sitting on her ultra.
Chun can actually get counter-ultra’d - if you weren’t in some sort of recovery when she activates it, you can do your ultra as her animation finishes, and beat hers out. The exceptions to this however are Zangief, Dhalsim, and Vega. Sim gets his out which will hit, but he ends up taking the first hit and in this scenario, now he’s dead. Gief’s animation plays out but the actual ultra loses. Vega gets stuffed before he can even leap backwards to the wall.
But what if you don’t have ultra? Not dying here comes down to two options - escape, or reversal. Teleport characters (Akuma, Bison, Dhalsim, Seth) of course can avoid it easily. Rufus can also escape with Snake Hands (normal or EX!). Fuerte can get out of it with EX Air Grab. Gen can get out with EX Oga. Abel can roll away. With Chun still in her ultra animation, they’ll have time to go punish her however they like.
For reversal, Ryu, Ken, Sagat, and I think maybe Cammy/Seth can beat it with their regular DP’s. There is a possibility that they do the DP too late and lose, but its not that hard. EX is much safer. However, many other characters NEED to use the EX version or their regular version of the reversal will lose. Guile’s EX FK wins, but regular FK trades - he loses. Honda’s EX Butt Slam and Headbutt beat it clean, but both normal versions lose. Rose’s only option is EX Drill. Similarly, Chun’s only option is EX SBK (ironically, her buff 2-frame super loses). Balrog only has EX Headbutt. Dan must use EX Kouryuken, regular loses. Fei’s EX Chicken Wing AND Flame Kick beat it, but both regular versions just get stuffed. So if Chun uses her ultra here, these characters are forced to burn EX meter to just not die - they only get reversal damage - Chun is still alive.
Then we have Vega and maybe possibly Blanka who are just screwed. As far as I can tell, there is nothing Vega can do - his wall dives, EX or regular don’t get out in time, his reversals get flat-out beat, and even his ultra gets stuffed before he even gets off the ground. There is actually one thing Vega can do - jump backwards. Most characters can’t jump out of Chun’s ultra - they leave the ground but Chun gets 1-2 hits of the ultra before they get clear. Vega can jump back, but usually this means nothing as he lands in the ongoing ultra and will be forced to block. However, if Vega has his back to the wall, he can possibly wall jump to freedom, and then punish Chun however he likes to. If I’m Vega fighting Chun and I have no life to spare, I probably want to run to a corner as soon as possible.
Blanka’s only possible options are EX Upball or EX Rainbow Ball, everything else gets stuffed. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. I have no idea why - I can’t say if its a distance or timing issue. It’s unreliable enough so that if I were using Chun, I had Ultra, and Blanka didn’t and he was on the verge of death, I’d do the ultra and take my chances with it.
So you can see, we have a wide variety of character-specific conditions. If you see Chun’s ultra freeze, what do you do? Most characters can counter-ultra, but a few can’t. If you don’t have ultra, it comes down to escape versus reversal, and some characters can do both, some can only do one, some will need EX meter. If you don’t know exactly what your option for survival is in that moment, you die (would every Gief player know to Lariat/EX Hand over Ultra?). Even if you do succeed, some characters now have free combo, while others barely survive at the expense of EX meter, with only moderate damage to Chun. And Chun players are going to have to think about who their opponent is before throwing out the ultra - escape types will kill her, reversal types might be worth the risk, or maybe I just want you to burn that EX meter. But all of this would be lost if the game had parry. Well, it would still exist, but parry would be the best option, so I wouldn’t need to bother with anything else.
You know, it’s been so long since I’ve played CE, I don’t remember the particulars of the Bison loop, so I can’t really say anything about this.
Have you considered that maybe IV fans are tired of people hating on the game and telling them why it sucks?
IV has problems, sure. Absolutely. But most people who play it have learned to just accept them and work with them. As we did for every other game. Including 3S. Yes, 3S had problems. Talking about the problems doesn’t = game sucks and you shouldn’t play it. Again, find an instance where I have clearly said I hate 3S, or am actively trying to discourage people to play the game.
This forum is for new players - sure it doesn’t help them to have a bunch of 3S haters come into the thread and say “the game sucks don’t play it!” But it also doesn’t help them to have a bunch of 3S fans come in and be like “the game is perfect, haters are losers!” What does help them is discussion from all viewpoints. Then let them make their own decisions.
Wouldn’t a late PPP back flip/jump-forward with Vega and Surprise Forward/jump-forward with Blanka avoid Chun Li’s ultra? I’m not too sure about how her Ultra start-up works. Also, a Vega player, with little health left, who runs to a corner is a dead Vega, IMO. Forget the ultra at that point. >_>
Edit
Never mind. I checked and learned that jump-forward doesn’t work. Looked at Vega’s other options and discovered that jump-back into KKK/PPP back flip on landing and late KKK back flip work, if timed properly. Off topic, but it may be good to know.
1-You make some valid and at least better discussion than any other anti-3S person in here.
2-You may not hate 3S, but you don 't seem to be a big fan of it.
3-You are exactly right in letting people make their own decisions, but when 3S players see a bunch of absurd nonsense that may hurt the chances of new players trying it out, we have to interrupt them and balance out all the hate. It’s not just the haters alone, it’s what they state that is completely false and they should stick to what they like instead of concentrating so much on a game they hate and know nothing about. It is foolish and makes them look like nothing more than fools.
There was a lot to your post and I don’t want to return comments on EVERY SINGLE PART but, mostly because there are some elements of SF2 which I enjoyed a lot that are lost in translation with 3S. What some people believe is an awesome change in parries coming into SF strategy, I saw a huge change that didn’t support what I liked. For example, if I am using Ryu in ST, I have to fight to get you into the corner where I have an advantage in my fireball trap. You have to a. stay out of the corner or b. negate (out think) my fireball strategy because there wasn’t a universal way of leaving the corner easily it made for exciting games (IMO) because of that struggle. Can I get you to where I need or can you fight me off and stay out of trouble. The “pressure cooker” scenarios like that are gone with parry as a universal way to negate any trap set up. This and in ST, it felt like every one had their own little game plan unique to them. In 3S, I feel like a lot of the characters play REALLY similar with throws being the best and safest way to negate parries. Zoner’s are out in the wind in this game, imo. Sim with excellent normals and a good fireball game could not function in 3S in the slightest where people could come in and out of his good/“bad” zones on a whim. That kind thing really rubbed me the wrong way.
I can also see why people like the game where there is no traps. A sort of freedom that ST doesn’t have. Don’t have to really worry about AA’s, ect because they are all easily negatible with a forward press. I like in ST where if you have earned a strategic advantage through smart play, the game is built to reward you. If you are in the corner vs a good ryu, you might not make it out. It makes you really think about your ALL AROUND and how even relatively small incidents can turn your situation ugly quickly. Couple of poorly placed pokes putting you in the corner from being whiff punished is a way bigger issue in ST then it will ever be in 3S. The parry allows for a lot at very little cost.
Hope that made sense.
Its only black and white for me because I like one style of play vs the other. I didn’t say the game is bad (I do joke and say it is a lot but that is all jokes is all). Different isn’t bad, just different. I thought 3S was a step back in terms of the strategy that I enjoy in ST. I played 3S for a long time when it had it’s renaissance, I played at EVO, MWC, N’Cubed, all kinds of places. I gave the game a fair amount of time and the end result is that I just don’t like system a vs system b.
Quoted for truth… 3S and SF4 are fun games. One has parrying and is super oriented, less zoning and the other has Fadc’s and Ultras and is more zoning and link oriented… now can we all get along:party:
The incredible list of scenarios you listed on how to deal with an Ultra chip in SF4 are all correct and your character diversity statements have been noted and appreciated; I can see where you are coming from.
However, we’re talking about SF3. To defeat Chun-Li’s SA2 up close, you have some options. You could try to jump; but it has a two-frame startup. I don’t think you could escape or even hit Chun-Li as you are coming down. You could parry, but that’s an incredible shot in the dark. As another poster previously commented, you have to start parrying BEFORE the super flash, or you are done. Not to mention you have to adjust your timing for the second set of kicks, and you have to delay-parry the final hit. Possible? Yes. If you want to take the character-specific route… all you need is someone with an invincible far reaching reversal of some kind, and that includes Super Art counters (they have to come out in at least two frames!). But is it worth the risk to try? Unless you know exactly how quickly your move is invincible, and how far it reaches to hit Chun’s hitbox, you’re never sure. Some characters obviously have no answer to the situation at all, unlike SF4 where you can jump forwards to avoid Chun-Li’s Ultra on reaction. There are so many characters without the ability to counter an in-your-face SA2 with any sort of move. But because Chun-Li chose to do something that can be seen coming a mile away, it can be parried by every character and countered; if you’re talented at parrying, which is no guarantee. This is something I appreciate very much about 3S.
Now you said that teleport or an escape move would be worse than a parry in that scenario. I disagree. Parries require really good timing, but an escape (im thinking of Bison’s teleport behind characters as the best SF4 example) would be much better as a guaranteed punish to win since you don’t have to worry about timing anymore. But you can’t do that in SF3 with Chun-Li’s SA2; I don’t think Akuma’s teleport startup is fast enough, and I don’t think Chun-Li would try to chip kill an Akuma with SA2. Where I think that you and I differ the most is that you think parry is always the best option, where I think that if a person didn’t have to parry, they wouldn’t. You’re giving a bit too much credit to the technique; if you had a choice over parrying the entire SA2 or just jumping away from it, what would you do? If parrying is your only option, then I have no problem with people going for it, but I would be assed to say that people prefer parrying over a nasty reversal or an escape move that doesn’t require any risk to themselves to use in such a situation.
I really don’t see a problem with characters having a universal tool to deal with a predictable chip kill. To me, that seems really fair. Maybe that’s the difference in attitudes between players? If that’s so, I accept that we’ll have differences on how characters can handle situations under do-or-die scenarios. Also I think that Third Strike, SF4, and Super Turbo play so differently that comparisons between the two should be avoided, especially in regards to characters; the engine of each game can’t accept every person from other games.
I respect your opinion on corner traps. However, this is why SF3 has a lot of throwing and kara-throwing in it to throw off parry-happy players. If you like Super Turbo more than SF3 I can understand why you wouldn’t like the way people play. But I think people make more evolved offensive strategies, to counter what seems to be an easy answer to all of your strategy.
This was really broad because it’s not like the fireball trap just spells instant win for anyone or everyone that manages to corner some one in ST with Ryu. How much more could a strategy be evolved when this one has been in practice for the last 15 or so years?
Artayes, don’t even try to act like you’re any sort of victim here. You’ve been defensive to a ridiculous degree, dismissing discussion with insults and nonsense. Azrael is trying to bridge gaps, and unsurprisingly you’re trying to turn his thoughtful attempts into a podium for your bullshit. Shut the fuck up. Enjoy whatever the fuck you want to enjoy but don’t be a pansy-ass zealot when something you enjoy faces warranted scrutiny; it makes you look idiotic.
Dr. B loves ion warp drives but understands their flaws compared to fission phase inducer.
LMAO
dude, you shut the fuck up 3S hater and bigot
You ain’t helping.