Why do people hate the parry so much?

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
61

Then nothing happens. Damage can’t happen without anyone doing anything at all. Comparatively, if you had thrown out a parry, and the opponent waited a split-second to attack until your character was moving forward (since you are standing to parry the jump-in) then you’re totally fucked by an attack. Yun players do this ALL THE TIME.

To respond to that, I would say it’s just part of the game and you would have to respect the gameplay mechanic to continue playing. I can understand if you don’t like that aspect of the game and don’t want to play it because of that. But, you know, even if you successively landed a parry, it doesn’t really guarantee anything. Let’s say you parry Ryu’s crouching jab; where does that get you? There are very few characters that land really big damage off of this, and that’s a balance problem, nothing more. Whereas SF4 if you DP FADC someone doing a crouching jab… well, game over.

It does take practice to do, you must admit. And if baits aren’t a fundamentally appreciated strategy on SRK… where’s the love? :bgrin: Sometimes you have to admit that the only person that can truly appreciate really advanced strategies in any game are the players themselves. I think technical marvels are just as good as strategic ones, especially in tournament matches.

How does Daigo win if there is no parry? He doesn’t. If there is parry? Then there is a miniscule chance for him to win, based on technical prowess alone. And I respect that.

Viscant’s example is character and game specific. In Super Turbo it is possible to place people in nearly inescapable traps using certain repetitive strategies (fireball/shoryu trap). In Third Strike you can’t do that anymore (well, mostly, fuck you Urien), but you still have to consider your strategies and option selects. However if you aren’t concerned about what you are going to do or what your opponent is going to do… then what are you concerned about? And if you play Third Strike in such a way that “I thought you were going to do that but you did this”, then you are on the fastest boat to a KO that I have ever known. You’ll die so fast it’ll be like you never played at all. You’ll eat so much damage it’ll really be like a Super Turbo combo all over again.

62

I’m pretty sure she can combo b.hk on a crouching opponent.

She can combo the first hit of s.mp into any EX, so I believe she can also super from it.

Scratch wheel.

Wasn’t either s.lp or s.lk cancellable too?

If not, then definitely cancellable into Scratch Wheel into super.

EX Mallet Smash - raw or st.lk/lp into super.

UOH.

But my entire point was that Chun’s c.mk being a true low (i.e. must be parried low) was a huge part of her game, and thus parry factored into her gameplay significantly - not as a part of her play, but as a part of how she had to be fought.

If Elena had c.mp as a true low, it would be a whole new ballgame.

63

People hate parries because it forces them to use brain power to win :shake:

Parries make most moves in the game unsafe.

Which force both players to “mixup” aka use new moves and strategies to overwhelm the opponent and keep them guessing.

Parries also keep your opponent to use mixup all the way to the end of the match as “chip” or “cheese” can* be parried by opponents.

Parries can be abused as a guessing tool but there is a simple solution to that. Throw the opponent.

*sometimes you are still in a parry animation and your opponent does another move which is not possible to parry.

64

These Street Fighter 4 players don’t know anything about parries. Come on ggpo you fireball spamming losers and bhumo will teach u a lesson by killing you with necro’s taunt. TRY TO PARRY THAT BITCHES.

65

who are these “veteran players” that hates parries?
and that srk tier list is wrong/awful.

66

The thing about Chun’s b.hp in 3S is that it’s better than parry. It has the insane priority, speed, and range that make it effectively a parry against most normals, AND it can link into super or cancel into a fireball to give her an escape from a jump-in parry. It’s something you as her opponent have to respect and be wary of, since it shuts down most of your anti-parry and anti-c.mk tools.

What I think makes parry better than DP FADC Ultra is that everyone can do it. It’s bullshit that only certain characters have access to such a powerful tool in SF4, and that tool is even lower risk than parry. If you miss a parry in 3S, you’re pretty much eating a combo. If you miss DP FADC…well, oh well, since you recover out of it while your opponent is still in block stun. This doesn’t even take into account anti-parry tools in 3S, like multi-hit moves, cancels, and various grabs that can all rock your face.

67

Original poster asks “Why do people hate the parry so much?” people instead answer the question “What do you think of people who don’t like parry?”

68

omg…every post that has to be remotely about SF3 you have to come in and crap on the game. we get it, you hate it. and your statement there is so false it makes me angry. you act like you know 3S but you do not. I play 3S every nite (except a few nights a week give or take) and always against new players. I have been playing 3S since it came out and have been promoting it, thrown tourneys for it, and WON tourneys as well (state-wide but still heavy competition). what have you done in 3S? really. I would love for you to learn and play this game, but please stop posting all this stuff that simply is not true.

You say that with parries you can never be put in a bad situation ??? really are you serious? the ONLY way in 3S can you actually never be put in a bad situation is IF you are a master parrier. Is there such a thing?? doubtful Kuroda and a few others are close but not at the level they parry EVERYTHING. About bad situations? YES, all the time in 3S. it’s called the corner. I am a great parrier, and my opponents usually are as well, but get caught in a “BAD SITUATION” (in the corner, falling into the corner, wakeup at times) and you will get raped. It happens ALL the time. One big part of 3S is STAY OUT OF THE CORNER". yes, there are MANY bad situations in 3S.

and OP, listen to me and the handful of others that actually play the game in this thread. why listen to those who don’t and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about? yes, there is zoning, spacing, footsies, yo mamma, etc, etc, in 3S. I zone all the time with Necro. I am exceptional with footsies as well. I just played against an incredible Remy that was zoning me pretty hard. UNLESS YOU ARE THE GOD OF REACTION TIME AND CAN PARRY EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME, all of this is possible. and even if you COULD parry really well all the time (or play someone who can really well) it will only force your opponent (or you) to change up your game play and since 3S characters have SO MANY options this isn’t hard to do for top level players. (it just gets more competitive, more exciting, etc, etc)

and as far as guessing goes. OF COURSE there can be some guessing in 3S. but that IS every game you play! from pool to basketball to SFIV to SOUL CALIBUR etc etc.
and at high level play you better guess right if your going to try that, or your ass is done (because sometimes it may not be worth it to try and guess something, but rather find another way out like block)
and just because you parry something does NOT mean you are going to automatically get a hit afterwards or combo (just depends on what you parried and how good your reaction time is after you parry to perform combo).

Parry is just another option, like blocking (which Japanese call parrying in Japan),attacking, etc, etc. Nothing more, nothing less, just another perfect option to a perfect game that only the true players of it can appreciate.

this is a pretty straight-forward statement right here.

I had to quote the most important stuff here. this is beautiful, man, and 100 percent truth.

69

Hey, I’m sorry if the subject had been discussed before, but I was just curious as to why there seemed to be this hatred of the parry. For me, the parry system in Street Fighter 3 Third Strike is like watching the old NBA of Magic, Larry Bird and Dr J. Those games were fast paced, there was lots of scoring and there was as much tension and creativity on offense as there was on defense. The league was filled with stars who could light up the scoreboard but those same stars were often called upon to shut down their counterparts on defense. Even if they weren’t defensive stalwarts they would often match their opponenet basket for basket–shot for shot. The playoff game between Larry Bird’s Celtics and Dominique Wilkins’ Atlanta Hawks is a great example…[media=youtube]jxqKLEMTBo4[/media]

So, for me Street Fighter 4 without the parry is just like the NBA right around the time that Michael Jordan’s Bulls and the Detroit Pistons started to become forces in the league. Tthe game that was once a blur with creativity and style for days(Think of Magic’s Showtime Lakers or Doug Moe’s Denver Nuggets and their non-stop fast break) slowed to a crawl. 80 point games were now seen as an explosion of offense, where in the 1970’s and the 80’s both teams normally had 80 points in the middle of the third quarter. But the tv ratings were through the roof and money was being made by the players and owners and the fans were told that what they were seeing was the best basketball being played on the planet.

But there was no “Pistol” Pete Maravich in the league, no George “Iceman” Gervin, no World B. Free and for all his greatness, Jordan had no peer and no true rival. To quote the great bluesman BB King, the thrill was gone. Which is what I feel about Street Fighter 4 not having the parry. I like the game–the game is fun, but it’s not Third Strike. Third Strike was COOL. The kind of cool that’s hard to define but you know it when you see it.

I’ve become a fan of Guile and I have to say that I enjoy using him and I wish I had played him more in earlier versions of the game. I love Cammy and I love my man Dan and I have a real soft spot for Gen. With all that being said, without the parry Street Fighter 4 is a good game but it pales in comparison to it’s older brother Third Strike. Just like Jim Belushi ain’t as cool as his brother John.

70

Because chances are if they still play this game after 10 years they don’t hate parries so they won’t appreciate why other people don’t like them. Or they 'll try to downplay their arguments.
It’s like trying to ask people who play SF3 “Why don’t other people like this game?” Many players will respond with something useless like “Because they suck at it”.

71

here’s what you seem to be missing/avoiding: ** YOU** have a parry too! and it’s just as good as everyone else’s! learn to use it, and you can have some fun in 3s too. & if you’re worried about ALL your attacks being nullified by the Scary Parry, play a grappler! Hugo is fun as hell in 3s.

honestly though, you need to get past this fear of your opponent & his options - this is where 3s applies to real life- when nothing in the system is safe, when you don’t have a 6-hit blockstring to buy you time to plan out your next action, you don’t even have time to think on your toes, you’ve gotta go w/ your gut, trust yourself, and you will succeed, don’t & get beaten by someone who does.

72

Although the whole “is parrying good or bad” debate is–on some levels at least–interesting, I think what’s more interesting is how frequently it’s been popping up lately. Furthermore, how vigorously it’s being argued this time around. A year ago, people would just be like “groan, another parry thread.” Now? It’s serious business.

3S is on its way out. Those who don’t want to accept this feel the need to exalt the virtues of how parrying is implemented in 3S. Those of us who wish 3S was buried in a shallow, unmarked grave years ago want to go on about how parrying sucks.

Part of the reason SF4 gets as much hate as it does is that it’s displacing other games, especially in the US. 3S was able to hang on at Evo (in some form) post SF4, but for CvS2, it was the final nail in the coffin. Now, 3S is going the same way, at least when it comes to major tournament representation in the US. CvS2 went out somewhat quietly–most of the CvS2 community resignedly thought, well, it had a good run–but 3S seems to be fighting all the way to the grave.

I think part of the difference is how the respective communities viewed the games. Virtually every person who loves/loved CvS2 will tell you the game has numerous, sometimes spectacular flaws. But even with all of these flaws, what you have left is a lot of depth. The 3S community? Not so much. Although someone did have the honestly to concede that parrying as implemented in 3S is too strong, about all you’ll get out of a 3S fan is to admit that the tiers aren’t really balanced.

Regardless of whatever personal opinion people hold of parrying, whether it adds or detracts from the depth of a game, or whether it even “fits” within the feel of Street Fighter; it’s going bye bye. There will most likely never be another game that plays like 3S. The 3S community can chose either to adapt, or to continue playing a game that is becoming more niche by the day.

Or is this really another “parry thread?”

73

And what he’s saying is that’s great - you bust out your Kung Fu, he’ll bust out his Kung Fu… and then you’ll both pull out your guns, and decide who has the stronger style that way.

74

I dont understand how parries are too good and everyone can do itl. Oh you cant that might explain somethings. Honestly the top players dont go for parries like that when zoning is way more important. I stress again you can do it too. I mean so what yall rather have one move that you can abuse over and over again, like seriously. I like having to mixup my timing so I dont get parried or what not. Anyway that just me but hey what can you do.

75

So I am reading the other thread and it seems that people hate parries because they present so many options in any situation that it becomes impossible to form a multi-leveled strategy. In other SF games if you knew what the other character was capable you could put someone in a situation where the best option is actually the worse option. This is impossible in 3rd strike since a parry at any point totally destroys your strategy.

76

I guess I remember hearing someone say that b+HK goes into super on crouch hit but that’s not super reliable since unlike Chun’s c.MK or b+HP that won’t work at close range and it requires a crouch hit which means you have to catch a whiffed poke or catch the person low parrying the b+HK (the latter would almost never happen). Scratch wheel is only good in combos after c.MP so that’s basically just c.MP explained further. EX mallet smash isn’t really that good of a set up either because it’s very range specific just to get that move to hit right in the first place. If you see Elena flying up in the air flashing yellow you basically just block high. EX mallet smash works best as a gimmicky anti air to set up juggles. On the ground it isn’t super useful other than to close a gap randomly and isn’t really a good setup for super.

Chun Li…yeah Chun Li definitely forced you to block low. Though parry low? Not really. Parrying low against Chun Li once she had meter is useless. You pretty much just block against Chun Li once she has a super meter like you would against anyone else. Parrying Chun’s c.MK once she has meter is a huge gamble since if she figures you are going to retaliate she can just cancel into super and punish your punishment. :lol: No one that’s good at 3rd Strike regularly parries low against Chun once she has meter unless they are really feeling themselves or absolutely need the damage. The risk/reward is not in your favor at all once she has meter. Which would have worked the same if 3rd Strike was in a SF2 style game. Chun with a buff ass cancellable c.MK into a lot of your life gone is something you’re going to low block…not low parry.

[media=youtube]0dP57uTFRW0 Or just watch anyone vs. Chun Li in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNMkVXKfDU4[/media]

That first short video shows a good emphasis on the footsie game vs. Chun Li (Yang as the opponent). Notice that when Chun has meter he never low parries the c.MK. There’s just no reason to. You are definitely right in that being forced to parry her c.MK low changes the way you have to play against her a slight bit since you can’t option parry her ground normals as well as Elena. Though low parrying itself is not necessary against Chun and it forces you to play a more SF2 like gameplan against her where the idea is to low block her c.MK simply because it hits low and will fuck you royally if you don’t block it low. Not because you have to parry it low. Which parrying it low is basically just opening yourself up for disaster. You’ll notice that in a lot of those videos also when people get hit by c.MK they are in a standing position. They were not trying to guess parry the c.MK and low and punish cuz that’s just stupid and not worth doing like 80 percent of the time. They just tried to walk forward and space themselves for footsies and super quick c.MK bites their ankles.

A lot of 3rd Strike at high level is whiff punishment. Spacing your attacks in a way that forces the opponent to whiff moves. If you notice the way that Yang player was playing in the first vid notice how LITTLE of his offensive was based on parries. Why parry Chun Li all over the place once she has meter? She’s going to be whoring a lot of high priority normals at you so you might as well work to make them whiff instead of getting your parries baited shen she has a bunch of meter. You’ll see the Yang player do stuff like press on c.LK’s against her far s.HK to make the s.HK whiff and then punish with c.LKx3 to EX slashes. A lot of the damage opportunities a character like Yang has to set up on Chun Li must be as little based around parries as possible. Maybe an option selected parry into a safe close s.MK at close range but outside of that basing your offense on parries against a metered Chun Li is just asking for death.

77

It’s the non-tournament one. There’s also a tournament tier list where Makoto drops like a rock, Akuma is boosted up a bit, etc.

Otherwise, I see we’ve reached the point where SFIII has nostalgia goggles. Look, I can’t think of an SFIV match that compares to B3 Valle/Choi or a bunch of classic SFII matchups either, but that doesn’t automatically make 3rd Strike the greatest game ever made and every design decision in which it differs from SFIV (which are really not that many) inherently superiour.

78

huh??? i can’t remember the last time i played in or spectated a slow 3S match. Even trying to draw games out for the purpose practicing defensive techniques games don’t last very long. I just saw a 12 v. Remy(?) vid where 12 won by time out and i was absolutely shocked.

there is a ton of erroneous information and half-explained concepts in this thread.

OP i’m not sure why you made this thread, if you like 3S than you probably like parries. don’t sweat what anyone else thinks about it

79

Awesome. Someone finally said it. And that refutes 90% of the anti parry posts.

For the other 10%, which go something like, “Dude, thats why Chun is so top-tier! Her crazy pokes, which combined with parrying makes the game totally imbalanced!” So stupid. You guys act like if parrying wasn’t there then the game would be balanced. Lol.

So much stupid subjective influence in all of these arguments. No one can give the game a solid criticism because there truly isn’t one. Both people can parry and the game would be imbalanced with or without them.

I’d rather hear stupid reasons like, “MMMMM, I don’t know, I just don’t like it.” Instead of “Wahhhh, it’s unfair BECAUSE MY OPPONENT WINS BECAUSE HE can parry but I can’t.”

“It ruins zoning”… Forgot to mention that last stupid nugget…

ITS A GOD DAMN GUESSING GAME, PEOPLE! YOU DON’T KNOW ANYTHING 100% FOR SURE IN ANY FIGHTING GAME! THE SMARTEST PERSON WINS. THATS ALL!

80

Yeah, I’ll cede that.

:china: