Why do people hate defensive/keeping-it-lame strategies in FGs?

[Jack_Frost]

…not playing like an idiot is a scrub friendly tactic?

what game do you play? I play mvc2, so someone playing MSP is an idiot? Another reason why I hate people who play “defensive” is cause they defend it with dumbass remarks like yours

[w00denTEETH]

…am I allowed to block at least?

[Jack_Frost]

just dont cry when you get grabbed

[w00denTEETH]

lol, thank you…

[doubleoh]

And there the difference, I play fighting games to get better so I’d actively seek out someone who was having success running away, especially if it was rare and I wasn’t used to seeing/playing against it.
Not ever seeing something before is what leaves you screwed and scrambling for answers mid match in a tournament. If everyone in your Area is “above” using Chris G tactics, what do you do when you go to a tournament and have to play Chris G, refuse to play on moral grounds? If someone is really good at running away I would want to play them until I could fully understand and beat that tactic in a casual setting before I had to come up against it in a tournament setting.

Some people don’t play just to win, you know. I think the FG community these days is obsessed with winning and using it to justify tactics. Which isn’t bad… but it’s only one perspective. And I don’t think a runaway Akuma would last in a tourney like Evo lol.

[BlackShinobi]

Some people don’t play just to win, you know. I think the FG community these days is obsessed with winning and using it to justify tactics. Which isn’t bad… but it’s only one perspective. And I don’t think a runaway Akuma would last in a tourney like Evo lol.

1. The Tournament part of the fighting game community is obsessed with getting better and generally concerns itself very little with the other side of players.
   Justify what tactics? “Honorable tactics” in fighting games is an imaginary concept. There are only tactics you like playing against and tactics you don’t like playing against and people who play in tournaments don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing their opponents, they do however have the option to roll over and take the loss or figure out how to beat their opponent using any mean given within the game.

2. Oh course Runaway Akuma isn’t winning EVO, if it were that good someone would be using it to win, but that was the example given (and a telling example given that runaway Akuma isn’t that good, on a large scale).

Also actively not going for offense and running as much time off the clock as possible with a lead is a valid regularly used tactic in Football and Basketball, that must fans would probably be screaming at their teams if they ever decided that it was beneath them to play in such a way.

[doubleoh]

1. The Tournament part of the fighting game community is obsessed with getting better and generally concerns itself very little with the other side of players.
   Justify what tactics? “Honorable tactics” in fighting games is an imaginary concept. There are only tactics you like playing against and tactics you don’t like playing against and people who play in tournaments don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing their opponents, they do however have the option to roll over and take the loss or figure out how to beat their opponent using any mean given within the game.

Well, no. They aren’t concerned with getting better, they are concerned with winning. Which isn’t a problem, but what I’m getting at is that what works in tournaments shouldn’t dictate how people should feel about certain things. I’m just saying it doesn’t end when you say “because in tournaments…”. Tournament ethics and results don’t govern how I play Street Fighter or any other fighting game OR how I feel about certain tactics. I don’t concern myself with what tournament players think, if they feel as though honorable tactics don’t exist, if they feel that anything goes, etc. Why should I? But I must clarify that I am completely on your side. I merely say this because I like to think I understand where the other guys are coming from.

Also actively not going for offense and running as much time off the clock as possible with a lead is a valid regularly used tactic in Football and Basketball, that must fans would probably be screaming at their teams if they ever decided that it was beneath them to play in such a way.

Yes, good point.

[Rokmode]

I love would love to see all these stream monsters who complain that chris g is just mindlessly spamming actually try to play morrigan in a tournament setting. He is inputting enough shit to break a normal person’s hands throughout the entire match.

[shadoken]

Its all about pacing , people in general dont like either extremes (too defensive or too offensive) . A good combo of both is fun to watch , watching a match where there is literally no offense or a match where its like " jump in herp derp mixups boom its over" like viper is boring.

The best matches to watch are Offensive character Vs Defensive . It always hype to see the offensive char finally get it and also hype when the defensive character makes a solid read and makes a comeback. watching a Guile Vs Guile or Fuerte vs Fuerte is definitely not entertaining.

[_Insert_Name_Here]

How would it look if a real life boxer just decided to play runaway

I’m not familiar with how boxing works, but I’m sure that most boxers would be inclined to go on the defensive if they had an advantage of some sort.

If there’s a rule in which boxers get penalized for being too defensive (I know they exist in some martial arts competitions), well, then you made a bad comparison. I mean seriously, FGs are not real life sports, so there’s really no point comparing them to real life sports in the first place.

[Empryrean]

I love would love to see all these stream monsters who complain that chris g is just mindlessly spamming actually try to play morrigan in a tournament setting. He is inputting enough shit to break a normal person’s hands throughout the entire match.

What does Chris G do with morrigan anyway? I hear his name a lot in reference to zoning in mvc3

[Rokmode]

What does Chris G do with morrigan anyway? I hear his name a lot in reference to zoning in mvc3

Essentially what he does is he runs hidden missiles assists and zones people out using soul fists+missiles, waiting for them to make a mistake, so he can hit confirm out of a soul fist or use the blockstun from missiles to go into a mixup into a combo and tac into doom to get a kill or atleast build more meter for astral vision. What he is doing is not exactly easy though. He is doing soul fist, fly, soul fist, unfly over and over nonstop throughout the match with no break in between, which is
:qcf:+:p: , :qcb::s::qcf:+:p:, :qcb::s:. If he stops or messes up an input, it could be very bad as her zoning is completely momentum based, especially with missiles.

chris g

Spoiler

[media=youtube]Yox-ChTnCVA[/media]

Zoning in marvel 3 is a difficult task to accomplish because of the fact that so many characters are ridiculous at the start of the match such as wolverine or magneto. Teleports also make it difficult. Chris g has to block extremely well and be on point to start up the morridoom trap.

[spoiler=chris g blocking amazing]
youtube.com/watch?v=2cHM8VCso1Q#t=4m29s

[Empryrean]

^ that doesn’t look so hard

[DoctaMario]

And there the difference, I play fighting games to get better so I’d actively seek out someone who was having success running away, especially if it was rare and I wasn’t used to seeing/playing against it.
Not ever seeing something before is what leaves you screwed and scrambling for answers mid match in a tournament. If everyone in your Area is “above” using Chris G tactics, what do you do when you go to a tournament and have to play Chris G, refuse to play on moral grounds? If someone is really good at running away I would want to play them until I could fully understand and beat that tactic in a casual setting before I had to come up against it in a tournament setting.

I play to get better too but most runaway players aren’t hard to beat. You throw out a few fakes and projectiles and at the very least you can get a life lead and best them at their own game. It’s like playing against someone that does nothing but mindlessly throw fireballs. It’s not hard to counter, it’s just boring to play against.

A tournament setting is completely different. The rules say you have to play anyone they throw in front of you.

Again, ** I think good players would respect him** and bad players would call him a fraud, scrub, coward, whatever.
Look at the question realistically and not as a hypothetical in your head, what would you have had to have done to win EVO this year with a runaway Akuma, you would have had to beat, some combination of Gamerbee, Dieminion, Daigo, Infiltration, Xaiohai, Poongko, PR Rog and HumanBomb (minus whatever player is replaced by runaway Akuma Player). Given the individual play of all of these players do you think that Top level players players wouldn’t respect someone none of them could beat. You’re using the hypothetical of some random online scrub winning EVO and not realizing how much skill it would actually take to make it to and win the EVO finals by running away.

I highly doubt the bolded. But let’s imagine that Daigo won Evo by playing runaway instead of actually fighting. Would people say it was “anti-hype” “scrubby” etc. were he to win the finals that way? I think he’d get a lot of shit for it if he were to do it that way and judging from all the shit people give Chris G I’d bet I’m right.

You’re right that you’ll probably never see a runaway player win Evo, and the big reason is that no self respecting tournament player would go and try to win a tournament that way. It’s cowardly and you can invoke the “playing to win” mumbo jumbo all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that if a tourney player were to win using those tactics, he’d get shit for it.

[w00denTEETH]

It’s cowardly and you can invoke the “playing to win” mumbo jumbo all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that if a tourney player were to win using those tactics, he’d get shit for it.

…you realize that we are talking about video games? We are not actually fighting each other. Moving your character so that it is directly beside your opponent’s isn’t an act of bravery.

[BlackShinobi]

I highly doubt the bolded. But let’s imagine that Daigo won Evo by playing runaway instead of actually fighting. Would people say it was “anti-hype” “scrubby” etc. were he to win the finals that way? I think he’d get a lot of shit for it if he were to do it that way and judging from all the shit people give Chris G I’d bet I’m right.

You’re right that you’ll probably never see a runaway player win Evo, and the big reason is that no self respecting tournament player would go and try to win a tournament that way. It’s cowardly and you can invoke the “playing to win” mumbo jumbo all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact that if a tourney player were to win using those tactics, he’d get shit for it.

History lesson

1. Hype and respect aren’t the same thing, they aren’t even close. Eddie lee was one of the most unhype players to watch and hes was one of the most respected players in the history of East Coast fighting games. He would literally go whole rounds without hitting forward and win tournaments.

2. When Chris G walks out of a tournament every week with his prize money with his prize money I doubt very much hes worried about what you think of him. Hes winning like a tournament a week, but I’m sure he would rather not make an extra $50-$250 a week to earn your respect.

3. You Do know Justin used to run away all the time in MVC2 right? Go back and watch some of those old matches he used to catch so many people with that Storm/Sentinel 100% combo because the were screwing up while trying to chase his storm down.

[DoctaMario]

History lesson

1. Hype and respect aren’t the same thing, they aren’t even close. Eddie lee was one of the most unhype players to watch and hes was one of the most respected players in the history of East Coast fighting games. He would literally go whole rounds without hitting forward and win tournaments.

2. When Chris G walks out of a tournament every week with his prize money with his prize money I doubt very much hes worried about what you think of him. Hes winning like a tournament a week, but I’m sure he would rather not make an extra $50-$250 a week to earn your respect.

3. You Do know Justin used to run away all the time in MVC2 right? Go back and watch some of those old matches he used to catch so many people with that Storm/Sentinel 100% combo because the were screwing up while trying to chase his storm down.

Ugh. Either I’m not being clear or you’re just not reading what I’m posting. I feel like I’ve said that THERE’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PLAYING DEFENSIVE AND PLAYING LAME. After watching more of Chris G I’d put him in the defensive category. He zones until he gets them where he wants them and unleashes a combo. Justin was likely doing the same and I’m not familiar with Eddie Lee so you got me on that one.

Playing lame is getting a life lead, running away and/or running down the clock. Basically doing everything you can to avoid fighting. That’s my definition of it and that’s what I’m talking about here and I feel like I’ve said that multiple times but you’re just not getting it.

[BlackShinobi]

[media=youtube]FNV_sJ7XZIM[/media]

In case you can’t hear it over Arturo at about 0:20 that phrase is “the original king of lame”

Maybe it all depends on where you learned how to play and who you played, but OG arcade East Coast respects that lame shit.

[p.m_novaroad_pilot]

cause its frustrating lol i do it but i try to keep a nice tempo between lame and rush down to keep myself honest when proper improv/adjustments need to be made

on the flip side alot of people have never played a competent rushdown player despite the assumed hyperbole in the name itself theres a science to it

[The_Breaker]

Ugh. Either I’m not being clear or you’re just not reading what I’m posting. I feel like I’ve said that THERE’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PLAYING DEFENSIVE AND PLAYING LAME. After watching more of Chris G I’d put him in the defensive category. He zones until he gets them where he wants them and unleashes a combo. Justin was likely doing the same and I’m not familiar with Eddie Lee so you got me on that one.

Playing lame is getting a life lead, running away and/or running down the clock. Basically doing everything you can to avoid fighting. That’s my definition of it and that’s what I’m talking about here and I feel like I’ve said that multiple times but you’re just not getting it.

I don’t think you get it either.