Poison jHk. Shoto jHP. Boxer jHP. Really strong jump ins in that category
I think a lot of the experienced people do know how to whiff punish. I play Poison for that reason. And I don’t think she is that great and I’ve been playing this character for years. I played Rose as well since SF4 but started playing her more seriously in Super. I think you’d actually find a lot of people here play “honest” street fighter which is the worlds stupidest reason. In fact the ones who have the longest complaint list (myself and blackadde) came from Rose. So I don’t see where the honest street fighter argument comes from. Since we’re both used to 1f links and not having a vortex it’s basically the same “honest” playstyle. In fact, she doesn’t even need 1 frame links (outside of unplinkable cr.lk > cr.lp) a day one combo that I found cr.lpx3 mk spin scythe for 190. Once again it’s not the links it’s that fact that people drop out of your shit.
It just depends on which character the person came from. I like chainable lows or at least a low that can confirm into itself or at the very least a way to AA people consistently or consistent moves or consistent punishes. Hence I hate how Elena plays, because she is not consistent.
Also I think this forum just has the dumbest lurkers and people hardly read posts. Really you think that cr.lk getting 1 more frame of advantage ON HIT which creates (no new effective links outside of meaty cr.lk into cr.mp) would be OP Just because she has a way to LINK cr.lk into cr.lk? Get the fuck outta here dude. So there’s this dead horse that keeps being beaten by lurkers who haven’t realized that this argument is done. It’s over. Finished. Some people don’t like the way the character plays, because other characters can do nearly everything she can and have people stay consistently in their attacks. The end. Hopefully there is another patch to address that. Done. Please no more of this discussion.
I can’t tell if you’re serious. But that makes a huge difference. An example Ryu gets hit by st.mp you can get hit by shinku hadouken and if he blocks it no matter what you do outside of EX RH you get hit by shinku just changing it to -2 alleviates that. Things like 3 button teching with st.mp becomes much safer so you don’t get ravaged by Rufus. It just changes a lot of match ups and removes the derp factor.
No trolling just trying to figure out what you mean. St M is special cancelable as is most of her normals. I understand that you’re just giving an example but that’s kinda like sweeping when Chun has super stocked. You kinda deserve to eat the super in that situation and the one you listed.
People bitch about the dive kick character matchups do you know how much better it’d be if that alone were better on block? St.mp doesn’t special cancel on the second hit and how is that anything like like… know what nevermind. It’s not even worth discussion. Give me one example of when landing a sweep on chun li results in her getting a free super and then we can talk more. You’re insane lol
I have been using st.mp to check dive kicks very easily. Also have beaten some of the buttons you mentioned above with it. I plan to examine her normals vs them more closely tomorrow night.
Sorry I meant to say she can punish on block with super. I don’t think I’m crazy. You give the example of st.mp but it’s a poor example. St.mp is an anti air. It doesn’t make sense to use it in the situation you brought up. It doesn’t make sense to use it when ryu has super. The Chun li example was an attempt to show how when you’re opponent has super some options no longer become safe.
If you’re at a range where st.mp isn’t cancelable why are you using st.mp? Why use st.mp instead of cr.mp cr. Mk or s.lk? I don’t get it.
i did a bunch of testing for elena vs jump normals w/ stand MP + stand MK.
there are basically 3 classes of jumpins.
1 god-tier jumpins
-elena can’t beat these with anything once they’re active (stand MP hits very high though, so you might be able to beat before they go active)
-eg. vega jump HP, boxer jump HK, adon neutral jump HK, chun jump HK
2 strong jumpins
-often beat or trade with stand MP when active and might trade with stand MK if you aren’t spaced right
-eg. fei jump MP, makoto jump HP, demon flip K, dudley jump HK, honda jump MP, ryu jump HP, etc.
3 regular jumpins
-elena should be able to beat these easily with stand MK unless you mistime
-eg. shoto jump MK, cody jump HK, etc.
imo her AA options are a lot like blanka actually. a2a jump HP is really strong, although jump MK is a little faster and works better in a pinch.
aa with stand MK is like blanka cr.MP; works well when youre spaced, moves your hitbox and is kind of picky where it hits. being a standing normal that low profiles is actually not a good thing because it gives you less time to react to an early jumpin. all AA trades are horrible because they’re probably going to do 100 damage (11% of your health) while you’ll do 60/70 damage (6/7% on a standard 1000hp character).
OK, so her AA options aren’t really horrible per se. they’re just picky and situational and weird. all of that gets fixed if they didn’t take away invincibility on her DP in the transition to console. bummer.
edit: also if you try to 3-button tech with a standing normal (stand MP) won’t you always just get throw/karathrow?
well hopefully she doesn’t end up like vanilla vega/rose because /just enough/ stuff doesn’t work properly. after all, they could play good fundamental street fighter, but in the end got steamrolled by important characters and only needed a little nudge in the right direction to not be ass. the meta of the game is shifting quite a bit with DWU and all the character changes so i don’t think i can really predict where we’ll be at in a year or two.
…“Things like 3 button teching with st.mp becomes much safer so you don’t get ravaged by Rufus.”
Now I don’t speak English well but I’d swear with the example and 3 button tech mentioned. You’d think I meant Rufus’ divekick game or any divekick character who uses them to blow up techs.
Try using them at the correct distance. (I meant Rog’s jHk btw sorry) but those jump ins rarely trade if ever when used at the proper distance. As it if your st.mp looks like it hits their legs then the were jumping in too deep to be pressing that button anyway. If you are hitting their fist then you are getting hit. No ifs ands or buts. And Poison’s jHK has a weird timing since the attack has a part where her jHK is above her head and not below her but near the apex of her jump if you jHK Elena’s st.mp trades of flat out loses. In fact if they use it at the proper distance your best bet is st.mk (Or if you have meter ex scratch) which puts you at disadvantage again.
I’m not sure what st.M has to do with that. He also breaks down Rufus options after a blocked dk and how 3 button tech doesn’t stop her pressure straight up. Maybe I’m misunderstanding something though.
Okay, let me type it again but more clearly because I can see I’m not posting clearly enough.
Because st.mp is your anti air button which leaves you at -6 when blocked and the same is true in regards to her st.mk, so it’s unreliable when dealing with Rufus pressure, because he’d either counter you of if you press it too late he gets a heavy free punish, which I don’t mind the former, but it’s the latter that’s dumb to me. If you want to 3 button crouch your next best option (and only option as your other buttons are either too slow or flat out lose) is cr.mk which beats divekicks but when mistimed leaves you at -4 where he can get a punish using st.lk.
By the way in case I’m the only one that does any labwork If he divekicks early you can cr.mk xx LK RH, EX Scratch wheel. But the thing is if he’s too high he can either beat out 90% of your options (outside of EX scratch),trade or air reset. (100% certain no one will notice this until someone else posts this days later)
So she needs some of her buttons to be less negative and I’d rather it be st.mp since it affects much more than just her ability to crouch tech dive kicking characters, it affects her overall footsies. It would allow her to create space a little more effectively, instead of relying on cr.lpxN or pure walk speed, which would aid her against characters with better walkspeed or longer reach. And I don’t think it’d be crazy as you get nothing from it if it’s two hits. But now that I’ve hopefully made that 100% clear I’m not going to harp on it anymore.
If your not use to playing old school SFII footies style then I can see why she sucks, but if you are then you know how awesome she is. I just got a problem with that super floaty jump she has.
Most of my rage with Elena is due to playing online, I’ve found.
She’s actually not a bad character offline. Flawed, very flawed. You definitely won’t be able to get by with just Elena, you’ll need at least one pocket character to cover her bad matchups, but she’s not unplayable offline.
Online, though, she’s unplayable. I remember thinking Sakura had an absurd amount of just frame links, but Elena makes that look like child’s play. Combine that with all of her anti-airs being timing specific and range specific (you gotta know when AND where to use st.LP, st.MP, st.MK, st.HP, cr.HP and EX SW, because there’s very little overlap in any of these as to their effective range), you’ve got a character who just cannot compete in an environment with variable input delay.
She’d be a lot more useful if they could just fix the hitboxes on Lynx Tail, Scratch Wheel, Spin Scythe - wait, does she have a single special move that isn’t fucked up in some way? Even Mallet Smash crosses up opponents in situations is shouldn’t.
I’d easily trade her wonky hurtboxes for hitboxes that actually did their damn job.
Oh, and her target combos. I love how out of four of them, only one of them works. I get the feeling that guy who ported Rolento into AE would have done a better job.
Online you can use c.lp x 2 as a hitconfirm which will able for you to combo into lynx tail or DP, but of course that is only useful to you if you are at close range.
