Why do I keep seeing people here saying Elena is bad?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1

Like, are you guys even paying attention?

Her high-low game is RIDICULOUS. she has overheads and surprisingly fast and strong lows that can be rapidly chained together to create incredibly difficult situations, she has amazing backwards walk speed giving her tremendous range and footsie flexibility, far reaching normals that when spaced properly are very hard to punish, and ultra that is so fast on recovery it might as well be a normal, the ability to easily combo into said ultra, a reversal, etc.

Not to sound like a douche, but I’m starting to think people may have just forgotten how to play actually legit characters, that don’t rely on ambiguous crossup vortexes or set plays.

Elena is an amazing footsie based char with equally amazing mixups she can easily apply during her footsies, while using her high mobility to weave in and out of danger.

Most of the actually good players who’ve seen here(people like justin wong, gamer bee, even some prominent streamers that do very well online) all agree that she has ridiculous potential.

But because you were not able to figure her out and become godlike with her IN A FEW DAYS, you just write her off?

I didn’t think the community was so full of scrubs.

2

I agree with you but this didn’t need a thread.

3

Why not? I’m trying to address an overall opinion people seem to have about the character.

it doesn’t really belong the general since it’s a specific topic, and ranting about why Elena isn’t crap in the combo or matchup threads seems a bit off topic as well.

4

Because it would be fine to just say your piece in general without expecting this to be a topic that produces a long and interesting dialogue. It likely will not.

5

Well I’d rather like to hear from people exactly what they think makes Elena bad, and discuss that.

6

Dude discussion over no one is talking about this anymore we have all moved on and you should too man, have fun playing Elena and hope to see you contribute soon

7

^ That’s the “discussion” I got when I brought it up. I’m relatively sure that zhd guy is actually not all there upstairs (No offense.)

But, yeah. Good luck.

8

please elaborate on her strong lows?

c.lk - cannot be chained, 0 on block, 1f unplinkable into c.lp, must commit immediately to combo
c.mk - cannot be linked into or out of, must commit to unsafe specials immediately, -1f hit /-4f block so if you don’t cancel your pressure is over immediately even on hit
sweep - great range, incredibly unsafe on whiff, -16(!) on block, can sometimes low profile stuff
slide - insane range, mega unsafe on block / whiff unless spaced very carefully vs. fast characters

for comparison’s sake, a good low game looks like viper’s - incredible overhead to make you flinch, ex seismo (safe), low forward into mp tk (safe), both can lead into huge damage. also see: sakura, dudley. elena’s gameplan is inverted: lows to make you flinch (sweep, slide) and ex overhead to open up combo possibilities. except ex mallet isn’t safe, and neither are either of her sweeps the majority of the time. plus, you have to spend meter to even try, which sucks because elena has no meterless reversal.

really elena’s close game is basically just smoke and mirrors:

-her frame trap game is pretty garbage (no strong 1-hit hitconfirms like cammy close hp, rose close mk, adon close mk etc.)
-c.lp is the only normal that’s + frames on block (+2)
-c.lk is only 0 on block and you can’t chain so it’s almost impossible to abare c.lk into damage, also makes it easy to backdash out of her pressure because you don’t have to block low
-round arch has a great hitbox for beating lows (yay) but it’s incredibly slow (13f) and for some reason really hard to combo on counterhit
-regular mallet cancels aren’t very strong because the hitbox is terrible; even shoto c.mk will hit her when she’s way in the air

what’s left is a really strong poking game midscreen, right?

-walks fast
-b.dash is good to maintain space
-f+mk is a really fast overhead with range
-s.lk is good, but can’t cancel into anything at range
-c.mp is amazing, but you can only cancel into ex mallet at range because everything else whiffs hits
-sweep from max range is safe-ish against some characters
-slide to whiff punish if you have great reactions
-ex mallet to try and force an opening, but it’s -4f on block and you’re always right up against people

i don’t know how the game’s going to evolve, but she feels really one-dimensional to me and very rarely gets a real reward for her trouble. are your X seconds of space control and whiff punishing + 50 damage overheads going to do more damage than their Y seconds of whiff punishing /your/ normals + knockdown / frametrap pressure? remember, this is a character with 950/900 and no meterless reversal (and a POS meter’d reversal to boot).

she’s like vega, but vega has better midscreen normals (c.mk, c.mp, s.lk, s.hk), a way better throw / frametrap game, much stronger jumpins / better jump, safe jump oki setups off his primary combo ender (ex barcelona), ability to chip w/ RCF, etc.

i’d love to hear some arguments otherwise. for what it’s worth i played rose from vanilla to usf4 so i think i have a handle on how ‘honest’ characters are supposed to play.

9

Oh boy here we go again can’t we let this subject go already, it does nothing good but bring unnecessary argumentation and hate. No one seems to have a definitive style for playing Elena some people play patient other play rush down and some just do stuff we don’t know and thats it. Just contribute lets make Elena grow and then we can get somewhere.

10

Cr.mk and cr.lk are good because of their range and speed, not block data. She’s not very frame trappy at all. Here and there you can try things like meaty cr.mp (which is positive due to 5 active frames) to mp or ex mallet smash, but it’s not her strong suit. Can be poked, can be jumped.

She’s also not going to be jumping at you, yeah. Maybe with some yet undiscovered canned setups but not in neutral.

I think Vega is a great comparison.

She’s very strong in neutral. She doesn’t have his st.lk but tbh he’s not great at frame trapping, either.

Still. She doesn’t use his throw game. She’ll use her high low game to threaten but like him earn her wins through footsies and sitting on a lead, probably.

Edit: Again, like Vega she has some serious weaknesses due to her range and mobility.

I can’t see her being bad with that toolset, though.

But on the other hand there’s definitely stuff she needs adjustment. Ss dropping people is an example.

11

i guess my point is that c.mk for instance will only do one of two things: 60 damage on hit, or a big gamble on a cancel into XYZ

so, like, you have to catch someone sleeping AND risk it all for it to hit. kind of scary imo. c.lk is an ok button but again to convert (which is what you need, nobody is doing to die to 30 damage lows) you have to kind of commit early to ending your pressure w/ c.lp strings. i agree, her frame trap game is pretty weak, but whatevs. you don’t need that to be good in street fighter, but it certainly helps. rose, another runaway character, is actually really strong at it and that ability to swing back and forth from offense/defense is what makes her strong imo.

i guess what i look for in an unexplored character is the ability to grow, and i’m not convinced elena has it. i can always get a /little/ bit better at whiff punishing with sweep, or knowing when to overhead three times in a row, but that damage is really piecemeal and her ability to sit on a lead vs. scary characters like yun, viper, rufus etc. is suspect. her AA keepout game is really rough w/o meter too, jeez. vega isn’t good at it either but at least he has (sometimes) stand rh or early n.j.rh / airthrow. even his c.hp can work vs. some characters like gen. i end up just running away with elena if i don’t have ex scratch vs. good jumpins.

12

St.mp is actually reeeeeally good for me so far. I enjoy her grounded aa options as a Claw. Everything feels free. She has other buttons in cr.hp and jb normals, too.

Yeah I dunno. I see merit to a lot of what you say. I just don’t think she’ll be BAD. The option for considerable damage from a low is there, even if it’s risky, and she has the mobility and range to find the opportunity to go for it. Her highs are actually even more scary.

We’ll see how she develops. I admit I don’t see a wealth of tech developing but I’ve been surprised before, and her core game is at WORST fair.

We’ll see where she falls. I imagine it’ll at least be somewhere useable. Can’t see her being, like, deejay status or anything. AND SURELY WE CAN COUNT ON CAPCOM TO MAKE THE PROPER ADJUSTMENTS. :wink:

13

I’m really liking Elena and I think she has a lot of potential. Yes some characters will fall out of her specials at certain ranges or because of their hit box. Isn’t that up to us to adjust to? While it isn’t ideal now that we know we can take the next step. Which to me is learning that range where it doesn’t drop.

The same way some stuff will drop after 2 cr. Lp cr. Mp. That’s on the player to know your confirms. At the very least that’s how I see it.

Then there’s the 1 frame links. That’s a pain in the ass that she relies on them for basically everything.

So while i continue to struggle to hit my links or AA properly. I feel like that’s more on me as opposed to Elena. I think if you can play comfortable footsies with her she becomes a ridiculous character. Execution and playing a strong ground game will open up her potential. She has high damage and damn near everything she does combos into ultra. Just need a better understanding of the character personally speaking.

14

Please tell us more about her amazing high/low mixups & fast & strong lows that can be chained rapidly in detail OP.

15

I would like to hear that too from the OP cause on Paper she is bad that much is fact, but there so much we don’t know about her yet and what she can do that its kinda up in the air whether she can be mid tier, low tier, or high tier, people are delusional right now arguing both sides and we kinda have to let the charc evolve well thats all i’ll say in this subject because this has been done to death plz contribute or just continue lurking we do not need more of these topics at this point it might as well be spam is we get another “Elena is trash” or “Elena is God Tier” topics

16

At first I just tried playing the character pretty much the same as most other characters.

The bad:
A lot of air time, will never land a cross up or at least much
Low priority

Good:
Very fast sweep and crouch hit moves that can both link into combos

Poison can do the same thing and has a projectile but Elena does have more speed and reach.

17

Okay I’m not even going to leave a lengthy post as to why you’re misguided. You site Justin Wong then read his post in the Elena general thread. If his reasons are enough for you then enjoy playing the character. If it doesn’t convince you then find someone else and play Elena just for fun as a character loyalty thing like I did. I think this character sucks because no one’s normals should be negative on hit. I vsed some poor Elena and anytime st.mp was blocked I used thunder whip and I can’t deal with people falling out of my moves ever, so I don’t play her. Additionally, there is no reason to fear her low game at all outside of slide, as you can just backdash all of that and punish. And for the record I think all of those arcade changes should be revoked, because a character with a 45 frame jump air time needs something to hit hard, and also needs an actual low game.

Also @Prof st.mp trades too much vs certain jump ins for it to be useful vs certain characters. I still wish they’d change the damage distribution to something like 30,60 since you can’t cancel the second hit

18

Who’s it trade on

19

this poor dead horse.

This character is honestly really really good, once you guys figure out how to whiff punish better and control space playing honest street fighter you’ll see how good she is.

20

I never thought she was a bad character just somewhat flawed. She isn’t too tier by any means but is still strong. The only REAL problems I have with her is her special moves whiffing on hit and I wish s.mk was changed to one hit. Everything else would be asking for too much IMO. Like imagine Elena with a chainable c.lk or even one more frame advantage on hit… She’d be a nightmare to fight. You just have to play her more honest and safe IMO. She’s the only character I enjoy playing at the moment

Edit: oh and change her input for lynx tail, but that’s mostly cause I have ass execution lol