i dont buy anyone else’s view of if a character is top or low tier. First few months of UMvC3 all the talk was how OP Wesker was and how bottom tier Morrigan was made due to the change made to airdashing. Even after years and years of play, all we have in any game is the best players playing charters and getting great with those character. My theory is that people assume a charters is great simply because a great player does great things with them.
Tekken and VF are both insanely well balanced this is because of the core mechanics of the game.
You can have widely varied options on a character level and still be balanced if the game has a wide variation in its options.
2d fighters are limited because, and I guess mostly I’m talking about Capcom games, all of the options are specific to the characters.
Capcom games always end up imbalanced because characters with the most options are always the best characters, and the characters with no options have nothing in the universal system to supplement their short comings.
First thought I had when I saw that. - “Bullfuck!”
Isn’t chess a balanced game unless you play against Magnus Carlsen…
In chess black is bottom tier and white top tier.
Perfect balance without variety is far worse than imbalance with variety. If there was a goal for devs to aim for balance, it should be offering a fair amount of play style variety with relative balance.
In a sense, MvC2 offers this at a high level with a good variety of teams for a player to pick, despite the sheer imbalance between the top and the bottom.
Lastly as a imo. For me it’s not how well balanced a game is, but rather if I can enjoy playing the game at higher levels despite whatever flaws it has; to accept the game for what it is.
Also table flipping is top tier in chess. White vs black is a 5.5 to 4.5 matchup.
I’m now imagining Sakurai just sitting to himself thinking ‘Ganondorf has never beaten Link, therefore Ganondorf should be bottom tier’
Devs claiming balance is not a goal is typical sour grapes attitude: they know when they can’t achieve it then they come to despise it or undermining its importance. The imbalance on purpose is the next logical step of this behaviour - it’s easier to buff some specific characters to the roof and say it was the intention since the beginning than trying to balance the whole cast and having to say they couldn’t manage it.
It isn’t even unique to fighting games. Magic the gathering designers have kept this policy for years and they have even created a motto about “we don’t intend balance, we intend fun” to further obscure any balance discussion (god, I hope fighting games devs never become like them, although this events make suspect it’s already happening).
White does have an advantage, this is one of the reasons some people play speed chess.
Also Go has first move advantage as well, but it’s not as significant as in chess so Go is “more balanced”.
Balanced != Fun.
Imbalanced != Fun.
A game’s balance should be organic. Devs have fallen into situations where they are intentionally deciding where a character goes on a tier list before players even get the game through modifications to game systems or completely ridiculous character implementation. There’s nothing wrong with a dev building a game that, to them, appears balanced. 5-5’s across the board. Once the players get it, you’ll never see another 5-5 lol. That’s how the game should be.
It’s called perfect imbalance, a genius formula really. Certain parts of a map on a FPS game are stronger than others, counter picks on fighting games, ect.
You all subconciously love broken characters! ( or maybe just figuring out how to beat them) =D It creates hype, i don’t care what you say. Don’t believe me? Watch this video on perfect imbalance.
Yeah and I’m sure both of them are very opinionated
You’re mistaking Sakurai as a fighting game dev, when he’s really The guy who invented Kirby.
Does that image say chipp is top tier? I must be misreading something. Faust I get, but chipp??? Need to check this shit out.
No they’re making the mistake of thinking Sakurai gives one single shit about their game on a competitive level. He does not.
Sweet mercy, someone understands.
That video was already called out for being bullshit, by me. On account of it being bullshit.
<3 you Anakaris. Why you lose to me?
That’s because Kaji is a fucking monster with Lilith. He is an anomaly. His execution and spacing during pressure is always spot-on and he almost always lands freak LIs for massive damage. Then he uses this to get in the heads of other players. There are other good Liliths, too, but you have to put a LOT of time into playing her to get on that level. Same goes for Oouchi and Shimat when it comes to Jedah. You don’t see any Anaks winning tournaments anymore, same with Morrigan or Vic (nobody really plays Vic except for like two people but yeah). A good chunk of the time you’ll see Zabels/Sases/Bees with the occasional Wolf and then a hodgepodge of mid tiers not named Felicia running things. Sounds like a lot of games, really.
Daigo doesn’t even like VSav, lol. Complains about Q-Bee. When Resurrection came out, there was an exhibition set between him and Sako’s Bulleta and Daigo got mopped (he was probably out of practice, but we also don’t know the last time Sako put in a lot of time either). If you want a really good Bishamon, watch Nakanishi’s Bish. Or Nuki’s. Or Shu’s. Nakanishi actually won a team tournament just a couple days ago against some other strong players. Dude was on fire and got a 20-streak at one point in casuals. You can see it here:
American play doesn’t see as much stratification in character usage because we have not reached the same level of breaking the game down as Japanese players. It’s actually true for most games in general.
Citing VSav isn’t solid grounds in terms of Capcom character performance anyway since it’s an oddball. And despite that, it’s still stratified at top level. As Hecatom stated, tier strength is relevant to the game the characters exist in and how their tools interact with the rules of the game. Tiers represent general illustrations of both that dynamic and how the best players are performing at the time the list was made. Gotta consider it from multiple angles.
Yeah, Zangief in AE was like mid or high mid but some considered him top because he (albeit briefly) had a good matchup against the twins. Megaman beat Magneto in MvC2 but was still low. The way I see it, if you go off of matchups entirely for your tier list (which I feel is the best way to make tier lists), then simply beating the top tiers isn’t enough, because the top tiers are top because they beat most if not all of the cast.
Chipp is top tier in GGXXAC+R