its a perfectly fine example if you look at how the game has grown compared to how it was percieved when it was first released. Characters like freeman have been found to be much better then he first appeared, and while Kevin is top tier hes not the disgustig dominant ass hole people thought he was in the begining either.
Its a fine example. I never said it was a perfect example of balance, only that it showed the game changes over time, and people learn to adjust.
I would have to disagree with you there. Kevin is stupid, really stupid, like numerous 100% combos stupid, we can all agree on that but a good amount of characters can fight him and win. The only match up I would give as an 8-2 is him vs Tizoc, everything else is 6-4 or 7-3 depending on the character. However, we’re seeing Rock’s place Top 4 in Japanese tournaments and we have God’s like Colossus bodying people with Tizoc in Japan despite the throw glitch so the game so I would rate the game a little worse than 3S in regard to balance.
I personally like the game’s design, but these are just opinions.
That is a rumor based on the fact that Pachi doesn’t like grapplers.
Tager is character design that become tricky to make blanced, a grappler that can puul the opponent close to him can become very annoying, even when he was weak on the fist 2 games, he was still able to control the space very well, not to mention that at low and mid level he can be percieved as strong making it very frustrating to fight against, i know that here on SRK we only care about high level but is a fact that they need to make a game that is fun at every entry level.
Also, Tager has been getting buffed with each entry and currently is a very viable character, players have been winning with him various tournaments in BBCP
That’s basically how I interpreted it. Fun and balanced aren’t mutually exclusive , but making a good game is more important than just balancing it.
The matchup numbers don’t look it, but Vampire Savior sees a great deal of character variety. More than most games. Pretty much every character is used fairly often, though admittedly Anakaris and Victor players are lesser seen.
Devs should just do what Harada does. When fans say “Wah wah buff/nerf” he tells them to STFU problem solved. Sakurai also stated that he didn’t want his game to be like a “tournament fighter” thats why it has so many wonky mechanics.
That being said I do think the new Smash will be good and fun.
most people look at Victor, and are like why should I use him when I can use sasquatch and hes a big character also. Mighty Marn wins tournaments with Anakaris
But Tekken has never been terribly unbalanced, so for any other company to take that school of thought and run with it when Tekken is arguably one of the most balanced series to date, would be an exaggeration on your part. Tekken has been getting better and better that cant be said about the majority of long-winded series out. And not a ton of reboot patches either, mind you.
Are there any fighters with an inconclusive or weird tier list where some characters who would be perceived as low tier have tools that can deal with high tier characters that even upper mid tier characters dont have?
Whether it’s devs or players, there’s this bullshit mentality about how imbalance is the only “real” balance. Evidence in favor includes a particularly terrible episode of Extra Credits and the occasional fringe example of a sloppily put together game accidentally being awesome (i.e., Marvel 2).
I suspect it comes from the same place where one believes unnecessarily difficult execution counts as depth and angry gamers read the beginning of this sentence and completely fail to grasp what “unnecessarily” means.
It’s not like they expect teleports in your execution. There’s always some profound reasoning for the apparent imbalanced characters inability to play like the top tier char. It’s just not as prominent because for some reason the characters that often end up being broken are the main characters and boss characters.
Really makes you think, doesn’t it?
Except for some Marvel players (who really only play Marvel) I’ve never met anybody that says imbalance is the only balance.
I’ve heard all sorts of theories about balance, from system mechanics somehow making character imbalance non-existent (I hear this a lot with 3S), to characters being so powerful there can be no top tier, but I almost never hear anybody straight up say “it’s balanced because it’s not”.
Everybody knows that Marvel is centered around a few characters and the metagame comes from the teams you can make. Everyone who plays it just accepts that even if the character balance was perfect, it would still be impossible for there to not be teams that just roll over other teams.
Are you listening to yourself?
“Everyone can’t be top tier” is bullshit but there’s still a bottom tier to be competitive?
Tiers are comparisons. If everyone’s in the same tier, there’s no need for tiers.
Then you have not seen the amount of bullcrap that some people can say sometimes, lets take Hokuto no Ken for example, some people actually think that because everyone is broken as fuck due infinites and similars the game could be considered “balanced”, when anyone who actually knows about the game could tell you that even when everyone has infinites there is always those 2 characters that shit over the rest of the cast due how they can abuse everything they got while the others requiere more specific setups.
I think that he means that there are some games where low tier characters are seems as low because they have only unfavorable matches while none of theme are worse than 6:4 or even maybe one or two that are 7:3
Is not the same a low tier character on MVC2 to a low tier character on GGAC+R for example.
people say tekken is really un-balanced cause they play VF series
says you, I want my character to be the best. I want my character to dominate. This low tier bullshit for the win is some english word for bundle of sticks bullshit.
Because frankly it does. When people start whining about a game being broken and needed balancing, they’re usually not the type of people that win much anyway. I played melee for years and mained ROY, so fuck the world. 3rdstrike is terribly unbalanced, and a lot of respectable people consider that the finest 2d fighter ever made. Marvel 2 enough said. I really think if we want to see a glimpse of the golden age of fighters again, the issue of balance should be on the lower end of the spectrum when developing a FG being trumped by things like innovation, uniqueness, praise for execution and practice, attachment to characters, things like that.
The title of the eventhubs article is a rephrasing of a translation. We can’t be sure what’s given is exactly what he said and/or meant. In addition to that, “balance” on it’s own is kind of a vague term. As many have pointed out, this is the guy who put in random tripping so it’s possible he actually intends to make characters good or bad purposely. But he could also referring to something more subtle. He might mean that the characters will not all have answers to everything else, they will have different sets of tools. For example, some characters may have a projectile reflector, while others may be big and slow and as such are worse against projectile characters. But overall they’re all intended to be good. Others have pointed out that it might just be a sneaky way to try to balance the game, and once the metagame evolves and inevitably certain characters end up as top tiers while others are bad, sakurai can act like it was on purpose.
Anyways, there was a good sirlin article related to this topic about this a while ago that might be worth reading:
http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2012/7/18/a-discussion-of-balance.html
3rd Strike is interesting because the mechanics may actually help mitigate the bad matchups. I believe Rikimaru has stated parry makes it so that there are no true 8:2 matchups in the game.
with 3s I think all they’re saying is that the universal mechanics are pretty strong and the game is open in terms of available options, so there’s a lot of opportunity for the better player to take advantage of them and overcome bad matchups, as opposed to something with weaker universal mechanics or a more stringent gameflow.
IOW a 7-3 in ST is not the same as a 7-3 in 3S which is not the same as a 7-3 in SF4.