Agree on both points.
seriously who the fuck cares if a **tournament fighter **has a story based off a shitty graphic novel/animu/mongo/ wtfever. Seriously? Play. Play to win. Win or lose. Or don’t play. Christ…
Melty Blood is popular because of Banana Shiki.
Thread is salty over Big Bang Beat imo
After seeing SSF4 preview and trying to understand a few stories of other fighting games, I dont think many people have to the right to complain about tsukihime, which is what melty blood is only based on. It has a different story.
I like Melty Blood because I like combos and the fast paced action and I can actually see what the hell is going on compared to GG or MvC2 (Both games I like ANYWAYS, MvC2 literally got me interested in fighting games)
Also Melty didnt technically take off while it was a doujin game. Melty blood is a legit arcade and console game.
Can SK or someone please close this thread? :lol:
I don’t really care, actually (unless I’m not all that interested in the game proper to begin with, like BlazBlue). If somebody’s got a Melty Blood setup at a tournament or something, I’ll gladly play it without subjecting people to any kind of sermon about how terrible Tsukihime and visual novels might be. (Even though they ARE.)
The whole Melty-Blood-from-Tsukihime thing is more amusing to me than anything else. It’s one of the universe’s funniest jokes, an absurd, illogical occurence that somehow managed to work out for the best. (Most of these dumb universal jokes don’t.) It’s like the platypus. How baked did God have to be to make a furry aquatic creature with duck bills and beaver feet that lays eggs and has POISONOUS SPURS? We will never know, but we’re still glad it worked out this way. (Unless one has a loved one who was killed by a platypus, the murderous little fiends that they are…)
NegroNinja: Big Bang Beat was doomed from the start. I’m pretty sure nobody’s losing sleep over that one.
^ Yeah, that two paragraph post is you not caring.
You are arguing a point to yourself and by yourself, that is not only irrelevant (THIS is what Melty Blood’s story is) but also has shit to do with the thread.
The thread was: Why did people prefer Melty Blood over other donjin fighters? In other words, what do the players like about the game. You haven’t answered any of that.
:china:
People that play visual novels and actually think its anything more than crap, talking about plot twist and what not are almost as bad as someone saying they read HUSTLER for the articles.
As far as MB, I would play it if it wasn’t some obscure ass game that has a pocket sized fanbase of actual players. Gonna wait and see what happens at Evo.
I will say this, I do think the American MB scene does get undersold, and I am actually glad to see you guys getting your props at Evo. No backhanded praise or anything of the like. Your game is not my game (my game will ALWAYS be the Deuce), and it comes from a silly pedigree, but I respect it nonetheless as a game that’s proved its worth with a community that’s proved its worth, and I DO expect a sizeable chunk of you to represent at Evo. Just make sure that Nero makes top 8.
That two paragraph post is me being AWESOME. There is a clear and readily apparent difference.
I DID actually answer why I thought it took off in a general sense in my first post, but in the interest of good sportsmanship I shall clarify:
General Japan: Took off because love it or laugh at how bad it is, Japan is more familiar with the source material. Not sure whether its arrival in arcades was more top-down (publishing company takes note of promising indie-ish game) or bottom-up (Internet hype commands mainstream attention), but arcade release is well received because by the point of AC the realy stupid quirks of the game had been thoroughly beaten out. Game is fast-paced and different while being accessible. Biohazard ensues.
General America: PC revisions of the game are readily pirateable and thus circulate readily amongst the doujin-game crowd. PC port of AC (also readily pirateable) gains strong foothold in certain sectors because it’ll run on damn near anything, and thus can be brought and set up just about anywhere, and thus it quickly gains ground as an alternative to Capcom/SNK/Guilty Gear. AA continues where AC left off with even more balance tweaks and same accessibility (and pirateability), and there you go.
Mechanically: People like it because it’s fast and not really prone to blowouts. The dexterity requirements to start are rather low because the game (to its credit) doesn’t require silly motions for the hell of it, and the characters are actually well-differentiated mechanically. Rushy without requiring Marvel dexterity. Meter management is blissfully simple and Heat/Blood Heat add a new dimension to life mechanics. Has Nero, who is easily the coolest character in the entire game by a long shot. That about covers it.
But Tsukihime still sucks.
Its really easy to not like ANYTHING when you are severely prejudiced from the start and only look less than 5 minutes into it.
If you don’t like it fine, its written in a way that is unique even for a visual novel (they are already much more like a long play than a VG or anime), deals with some disturbing character traits, it is auteur as hell, it deals with themes that some people fundamentally disagree with as it is a postmodern work, and has a fair amount of sex and violence.
However the entertainment value and literary depth is there. Since it seems you guys think it has no solid literary depth, one of the themes, as an example, is the role that background and the almost arbitrary decisions in a persons past play in giving the character their tragic elements. This is handled expertly throughout, but you will have to take my word on that because obviously the quality, and execution of character development and such can’t be understood without playing. I’ll leave it at that, but I can’t let people who have no idea try and make out of my favorite pieces of media to be objectively “Sucky” unopposed.
It’s really easy to make bullshit assumptions, which is what this is. Don’t like something? You MUST be “severely prejudiced” and guilty of only giving it “less than 5 minutes.”
Also, nothing about Tsukihime is handled “expertly” except for its expert usage of such Japanese storytelling mechanics like “all girls are softies on the inside even when they’ve just been literally torn to shreds by the person that becomes the center of their affection” and “we have depth because our storytelling vices are ambiguous.” That last one is true of most anime, Japanese video games, and Japanese storytelling in general. And no, I don’t need to have played it to have researched it, just like I don’t need to have actually seen a movie to research whether or not it’s worth my money.
Which is not a shot against Melty Blood, which, in my limited experience, is a ton of fun. I like Shiki. I liked him a lot more before learning his backstory though. I try to tune it out when I play, and pretend he’s a reluctant member of Norman Osborn’s Dark Avengers.
Dr. B may be a god or a demon, but you can’t infer that from subtext alone.
I like anime.
You should be raped by the ghost of Andy Warhol for that terrible run on sentence. Glad to see Specs holding it down against the ignorant masses.
Which reminds me, there needs to be an Excel Saga Dojin fighter. Shin Pedro ftw.
Against my better judgment, so do I.
Only if Space Butler is playable. Poor, poor Space Butler…
[media=youtube]XP5lz2CYNR4"[/media]
And GAYMEN!
Well. I like anime music.
-
I obviously don’t have a problem if someone doesn’t like it or finds some fault in tsukihime hence my second paragraph. I was merely stating a phenomenon when people start something knowing they hate it spend the minimum amount of time with it and find and blowup every little fault which may or may not actually be there.
-
Bullshit assumptions much? Besides declaring that nothing is expertly handled without having played it (see #4). You are suddenly assuming that all he is doing is spamming generic stuff, he isn’t , and even if he was, Expertly handling those “japanese storytelling mechanics” would still mean having A good entertaining Japanese romance story, which is obviously the goal of most storybased eroge. its not like you can completely remove stereotypes from any really established genre, at least he is aware of it and when he uses one he twists it so it is hidden slightly and he uses it to further the themes of the work.
-
Its a story about true love through extremely fucked up circumstances, Nasu is constantly showing defiance to objective morality throughout Knk, fate, and tsukihime, often in extreme ways. He has that kind of view and he explores it as a theme throughout his works, while the characters struggling with the objectivity that is giving them their tragic traits. He is favoring the psychological perception of X rather than societies view of X, hence people “accepting” and falling in love with murderers. Some people won’t like it but it ain’t generic and it isn’t bad writing. The extremeness of the subjectivity in tsukihime was actually very refreshing to me since i had never found a writer who thought that much like me before him. I like how his characters all each have their unique ideas about the world that are completely different from Nasu’s own views. then throughout the character development he eventually connects the two viewpoints without the characters realizing exactly how their thinking has changed, or at all necessarily.
-
Absolutely true don’t necessarily need to see a MOVIE to know if its bad or not. But its not like there are reviews or critical analysis for the visual novel anywhere and the ones that do exist are done by people who love the game, completely accept the medium, and often arn’t capable of really analyzing what they saw, so they arn’t much good except for a recommendation. neither are the people who make forum posts saying they didn’t like the game without reasons or badmouth it without touching it. Reading about a 25 hour storyline on Wikipedia or whatever will only give a caricature of something like this, it would make lord of the rings feel generic as hell rather than a prime example of the archetype(example don’t read much fantasy). you just have to rely on recommendations and try it and see for some things.
I can’t trust video game reviews myself because ive been better at figuring out whither a game is good or not than them for years, and MGS4’s wrongfully high reviews proved it to me.
- I think he was very cleaver with his vices he uses them to make his story more fun to read, and analyze, and also helps focus on the thematic elements(which makes more sense if you know the endings and sex scenes). Some may read them as flaws but they are clearly deliberate, but Nasu toned down these alot for fate, so he seems to have largely conceded on the issue himself so I won’t defend them too much.
also i don’t care about run on sentences n’stuff for forum posts. Too much time. i usally don’t even use capitals and glance through once at best. meh i get them good grades @ school.
edit: damn when i said essay’s i meant it!
I find it difficult to trust the literary opinions of a man who cannot use apostrophes correctly.