After I heard opinions on how bad the online is for the JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure re-release, i wondered what is wrong with developers(particularly japanese ones Arcsys not included) making games with bad netcode in 2012. Don’t they want people to play their games and have a good experience? Are they really that jaded that they think that every is withing 20 miles of each other and can get good local competition at whim? It’s seems that way and I don’t understand why. Why can’t all games have netcodes as good as Skullgirls or Blazblue(never played it but I hear nothing but good things)? Why can’t developers just contact Ponder to have GGPO implemented into their game? I just want to hear other people’s thoughts on this because I really am getting tired of good games coming out like JoJo’s and KOF 13 that you can’t play online to train because the oversights of these games’ developers. Also if Ponder reads this how often devs contact you regarding GGPO?
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From what i understand;
Games like SSF4 are developed by Capcom Japan. Japan has almost the entire nation on high-speed fiber optic broadband, so the netcode is designed to work best on fibre optic broadband, America and Europe don’t have a fiber optic majority right now so it doesn’t work as well.
In addition, i think i read an article at some point where Capcom said that Microsoft dictates how much online support a game gets to an extent, based on the size of the title etc.
Don’t know if the latter holds 100% true but hope i was of some help!
Microsoft only controls the matchmaking which has always been poor for fighting games.
KoFXIII netcode isn’t even good in Japan/Korea according to those players.
- Fighting games (in general) can’t tolerate lag as well as other types of games.
- Network performance is very fussy, and implementation is not as easy as “#include ggpo.h”, especially when your system resources are already taxed. If it was that simple, more teams would do it.
i don’t think GGPO is necessarily the “end all be all” of netcodes(although Skullgirls has easily the best netcode of any fighting game I’ve played) but Arcsys has managed to make games with really good netcodes without GGPO. I just don’t get why a developer can’t make a good netcode once every few years and apply it to all their subsequent games like Arcsys did.
Arcsys games aren’t exactly pushing the console to its limits, so saving and restoring states during gameplay isn’t as complicated as it would be in a game made in, say, the Unreal engine. Arcsys also designed their games to be very lag tolerant with the broad input windows and decreased emphasis on split-second decisions.
Netplay is a very difficult puzzle to solve, where sometimes the pieces can’t be arranged in just the right way to make a pleasant picture. How much of your optimal offline gameplay experience would you be willing to sacrifice to make it easier to implement strong netplay? If I was focused on building a great offline game, I’m not so sure I would be willing to let elements of what I considered to be my core gameplay aesthetic be sacrificed for a better online multiplayer experience… but some would.
Anyway, netplay will get better in the years to come. People should be playing offline anyway. At their best, fighting games are very social games.
ArcSys games have links that are as strict as SF. They actually have a buffer that makes it easier to do links. That also helps cheat around the variable delay code they use.
Skullgirls netcode is overrated, it lags to shit whenever you play someone outside of your coast.
- Online is generally a bad matchup for fighting games period because of the precision needed
- Japan don’t care
But those buffers require the user to hold the buttons down and most people don’t know this and just assumed its there.
I’ve never had this happen, but I’ve heard it. Apparently it was because of the ggpo custom code being off. They got help from the 3rd strike team, so that should be fixed in the patch.
Just like the OP said, I don’t buy the games I want to play because if it’s bad online, then it’s not worth spending money on it. For example, I don’t play SF4 and UMVC3 anymore because the online is horrible. And I didn’t bother buying KOFXIII because I hear it has a pretty terrible netcode. Been playing SFxT and SkullGirls because, you guessed it, has good online netcode.
But there is a silver lining here for KOF, and of course, it’s GGPO. Just found out yesterday that KOF98/2002 are pretty popular games on there, so I’m looking to get into that. Unfortunately it seems that the majority of players for these are either from South America or East Asia. Still, 200ms on GGPO is god like compared to umvc3 or sf4 online.
sad but true this is holding fighting games back
Since fighting games require a lot of practice to be good at them and enjoy, developers should be concentrating in online/multiplayer options the most. Replicate the arcade experience at home, but I guess they think they are better off preparing that DLC.
Because you’re not gonna turn 2-5 frames of lag into anything but 2-5 frames of lag.
Is KOF 13 the only legit unplayable online fighter this gen? I’ve actually heard about some people having decent online matches on Dream Cancel or something, but I didn’t look into it much.
You need to rethink your idea of what constitutes “bad” netcode. Don’t get me wrong…it’s out there… but the reality is for a packet of data to get from the EC to the WC and back again requires a certain amount of time.
Ping www.google.com and watch how long it takes to get a response. 50 - 100milliseconds of delay would be pretty common. That’s to send a tiny little sliver of data to one of the most powerful arrays of servers on the planet. If you think sending everything needed for gaming is even close to that simple… your crazy. So logic says it might take a bit longer still. Given 60fps games… you are already riding the line of losing 1+ frames… without any other internet anomaly having an effect (which happens pretty much constantly).
Also if you are in the US or most of Europe… you don’t even have good enough internet to be a judge of the netcode. In most cases any delay you are suffering is a result of your crappy cable internet.
Well, if sf4 and umvc3 online is unplayable but sfxt is almost like offline, what does that say about my cable provider according to you?
Sure seems like I’m able to discern from good or bad netcode to me.
Straight up input lag = bad netcode for fighters
Slowing down the game to hide the input lag = horrible netcode
Increased buffer window to hide the input lag = Not so bad for 2d, quite enjoyable for 3d fighters but trying to block on reaction will be difficult
Rollback netcode that drops sounds = pretty good but scrubs will complain
Rollback netcode = great for most games