why dont you use some of these strategies next time Eddie Lee waltzes into your state and rapes you all.
Okay there, hero-worshipper boy!
Sorry, I didn’t mean to insult you 
I meant to recognise and commend your useful and detailed contribution to this thread
i think dan the worst character because many of his moves have very little range and hes very easy to rushdown. Kyosuke is bad but hes not bad enough to the extent where people bash him all the time. I think nak on the other hand is a really useful charcter. her rush down and cross up games using her dash gives me problems all the time. shes definately atleast mid middle tier probably higher.
as most of u guys have said above me everyone is usable, even if they are low tier.
i know a guy who plays a pretty mean Ryo… and Ive been chipped to death by an A-Benimaru X_x hes pretty goof if you know how to use him right, he builds loads of meter…
And King, omg there are some combos of satan with her…
with all these chars its just the fact that those combos come once in 5 matches or so, theyre usable, hell yea, but practical, no
Maybe because Eddie Lee didn’t use A Haoh throughout all of TS4? His teams were hella random sometimes. And he didn’t quite “rape” anybody, at least not from what I saw. More like ran the hell away from everybody. He’s really good at it, don’t get me wrong. Mad props for getting to the finals and sticking to that strategy against Justin, even if it was the most boring match ever.
But his success was due to his own skill and extreme patience. Not because he had elite Haoh strats or anything. His Haoh looked exactly the same as his Hibiki… patient to the extreme.
Actually, I think he could have beaten Justin in that match, except for one major difference- Justin’s team can actually do damage.
If anything, Eddie’s Haoh proves my point. Haoh can harass you all day, but he’s not doing damage. He has to run the clock, use his long jump arc to run around the playing field, jab you a lot to discourage dashing/running in and keep you out, strongs to keep you further out, and c.fierce to keep you from trying to jump in from far away. He’s not doing any real damage but you’re not, either. And once you get in any position to threaten with damage (with Sagat, that’s like just inside half screen, not a very difficult range to get into often) then Haoh can either be stoic (rather, stupid) and try to hold his ground, or he can do the smart thing and change the ranges around… by backdashing, jumping back, whatever. Anything to keep space between him and his opponent.
Why did Eddie’s Haoh rarely take more than one round from anybody? Because he would win 90% of his rounds on time-out, or at least with only a little time and life remaining. He gets combo’d after hitting his opponent with like 3 jabs and it’s time for his next character.
Haoh loses tomost anybody with the patience to force Haoh to come to them.
Yet again i have to ask, why is someone waiting patiently for Haoh to come to him a problem for Haoh? Isn’t it to haoh’s Advantage that he has his S.HP to chip away at a person’s bar?
Maybe it’s just that you view him in A, not in K like I do. Perhaps you could try him in K and see how well you can do with him (or not?)
but s.hp is SOOO LAGGY, it’s a DP/super waiting to happen. and haoh’s footwork is horrible = sucky character.
…
So you’re saying that When I press my HP, you can see it coming a mile away and react with super?
Oh wait, for all those who are saying Haoh sucks, have you been playing him a lot? Or is this just hearsay from, umm, the others (Who might coincidentally not have played Haoh seriously before)?
c. lkx3, c. lp, lp overhead punch thingy with haohmaru, BEST COMBO IN THE GAME, is that even an overhead? can they hit you afterwards? i try not to pick him.
can anyone justify some vice, benimaru, yun, and yuri??
hey man i’m no hero worshipper but if texas hadn’t lost to eddie lee’s haohmaru then i wouldnt have said anything. just say “yeah Eddie Lee used ‘low tier’ and fucked everybody up”. and are there even arcades in hong kong? how would anybody from there know anything about cvs2 anyways? so next time just practice anti haohmaru and dont get raped by runaway eddie:)
I forget whoever asked me, but I plan on discussing the merits/flaws of my bottom 6-8 characters, then weigh all that info against each other and choose who I think the current worst character in the game is.
And people need to calm down if one of “their” characters makes my bottom 8 list. People are getting heated because they think that the term low tier, or even worst character in the game is synonymous with shitty and unwinnable. Not really. If Marvel only consisted of Sent, Storm, Magneto and Cable, Cable would be considered low tier (because SOMEBODY has to be there) and the worst character in the game. Does that mean Cable sucks or cannot win? Get over it.
Anyway, my word isn’t law by any stretch of the imagination. If you’re hellbent on proving your character doesn’t deserve to be bottom 8, prove me wrong. Come up with better pros than the ones I listed, and nullify the cons that I listed.
To Rokiseph: Yes, Haohmaru’s fierce IS punishable on block even at max range. Sagat can easily level 3 high tiger super without even reversal timing. Cammy can super any fierce except for the absolute MAX range (like one pixel off and she can super it), Blanka can super it at any range, Chun Li can level 3 it (except at ABSOLUTE max range), Bison can level 3 it, etc etc.
Don’t get me wrong, discussion is good. Getting indignant about things is not.
Ryo:
Pros:
-Very good uppercut, covers a large area above and slightly behind Ryo. Ryo is pretty much impossible to cross up without knocking him down first.
-Very good angle and speed on his air jab fireball. His air fireball has a much more favorable angle than Akuma’s and doesn’t cause him to bounce back like Geese’s, making it the best air fireball for zoning purposes.
-Ground jab fireball is on par with Ryu and Akuma’s. Also gets released fairly far in front of Ryo, making it useful for footsies. Also combos easily off of jabs and shorts.
-His fireball game gives K-Groove lots of problems.
-RC hcb+jab is mostly safe on block, gets you 2000 dmg plus knockdown and set up midscreen, 2300 dmg plus set up in corner. Hcb+jab by itself is also one of the faster meter builders in the game.
-Above average sweep. Good range on it.
-Huge priority on his jumping roundhouse. Low jump roundhouse is a killer and is also an overhead on every character. Everybody falls for overhead low jump roundhouse, land uppercut/super.
-His jumping forward cross up can be very hard to block given the right set ups.
-Fireball super is a great all-purpose move. The efficient input for it lets you pull it out really quickly on command also. Level 3 fireball is totally safe if blocked.
-The rush super is another good all-purpose move. Covers ground faster than the fireball super and does slightly more damage, and the expense of being much less safe.
Cons:
-His jump has a horrible arc. There’s so little forward range on his jump (and jump attacks) that it’s very easy to keep Ryo out. Crossing up an opponent without knocking them down first is almost an impossibility, as Ryo’s cross up range is pretty much right up next to the opponent’s face. His low jump basically goes nowhere, and good luck crossing up with that thing.
-His backwards walking speed is as slow as Dhalsim’s, severely hurting his ground game.
-A lot of mostly useless, unsafe special moves: the jumping chop, the Gangsta Kick, and the crazy hands.
-His uppercut doesn’t have nearly enough horizontal range. Max ranged jump ins (particularly low jumps) present a big problem for Ryo.
-While overhead low jump roundhouse, land and uppercut/fireball super is guaranteed to work at least twice on everybody, there’s no real mix up for it due to the extra recovery on low jump attacks.
-His normal move set is fairly weak. He really only has low roundhouse to rely on for ground games (standing forward is decent), making him very reliant on his ground and air fireballs. This gives him a weakness to roll grooves, and also characters that kill projectile games like Cammy and Guile.
-Without level 2 or 3 supers, he doesn’t have any kind of damaging combos when outside of point blank range. Around low forward range he doesn’t have any combos AT ALL.
-The combination of being reliant on fireballs and not having any real combos outside of point blank range makes Ryo very sucseptible to roll cancels (a factor I completely forgot to take into account with the other characters).
Best Grooves:
N-Groove: Run and low jump make Ryo much, MUCH better. Running is really Ryo’s only good option to close the distance on an opponent, while his low jump game is quite powerful if he can get into range to use it. RC backfist thingie helps a ton when in close, while RC ground fireball helps his ground game a lot.
K-Groove: Run and low jump. JD makes his normal jump game a lot stronger. Getting raged often gives Ryo opportunities to land his level 3 fireball super randomly (usually after an overhead low jump roundhouse).
C-Groove: Very damaging level 2 cancels near the corner. Level 2’s and stored supers in general help out Ryo a lot, as he generally has to wait for his openings as opposed to forcing them.
Next: Zangief (two characters per post is a lot of work!)
when he whiffs.
I can parry fierce on reaction, thats as good as a super.Buktooth’s kyosuke, Joe team is unstopable, Joes punches have to be the best wakup in the game, it was eating level three’s and giving free dashes on block!I bet he could beat 80% of ppl at evo with that team if he honed it.Somehow Kyosuke was beating deep jumpins with his c.mp? antiair.Wierd characters.
First off, I really enjoy reading these somewhat in-depth pro’s and cons of the characters.
Second, I’m hoping I get to see Yuri or Benimaru on here soon.
And finally I’d just like the mention one thing about Haoh’s uppercut super, it -does- suck as a combo into super, but it’s suprisingly good at punishing whiff’s. I guess it’s mostly because of the long sword range, but still having one use for one of his supers is better than nothing. 
i only see hao being used to counter guile. he sucks period.
No Buktooth, it’s all good. No wait, you’re all good. The only thing I thought about immediately writing my first post was how a multitude of sheep will just come out, read these posts and take it as the official “8 suckiest characters in CVS2”. You ARE a veteran in this game, you don’t know the influence you have. Just look at all the people coming out of the woodwork now saying that Haoh sucks based on his laggy move (not plural) or sucky supers, when they haven’t personally tried him seriously.
Haoh isn’t my favourite Character, (Todo and Dan are) but the thing is I’ve played him long enough to even admit he isn’t close to bottom 8 in K Groove. He isn’t even low tier, or sucky as some others might have put it. Again, he also isn’t ‘My’ character.
Granted his Slash is Punishable…by the high speed fast travelling Supers. And it’s not as easily punishable as it’s been said, Sagat can’t hit him if it’s the tip of the sword brushing against him. And even then, it’s only punishable by the Level 3s. Anyway it is blatantly obvious that one doesn’t chop when you’re at mid range, that’s what the S.MP is for.
Ok to ‘atone for my indignancy’ (read below to see my feelings about this), here is a list of characters that may punish him if they block his Heavy Slash at medium range. (That’s saying that a player went and did a heavy slash when he was in MP range, something which haoh does not do when his opponent has a level 3 that can punish) Those with an asterisk, I’m not even sure will work, but suddenly comes to mind.
Sagat - Level 3 high tiger Cannon
Cammy - Level 3 Spin Drive Smasher
Blanka - Level 3 Direct Lightning
Balrog (boxer) - Gigaton Blow
Chun Li - Level 3 Houyokusen*
Rolento - Level 3 Take no Prisoners
M.Bison - Mega Psycho Crusher
Guile - Sonic Hurricane
Kim - Level 3 Hououtenbuukyaku
Rock - Level 3 Shine Knuckle.
Ryo - Level 3 Ryukoranbu, Haohshoukouken*
Terry - Level 3 Buster Wolf *
Anyway, thing is, this is how I broke it down a long long time ago.
Let’s use just Sagat as an Example (Since a lot of people are going to be using him as an example of how scrubby Haoh is)…(not including you of course).
C Groove Sagat - Can Sit on level 3. Has no Short Jump. - Cannot outpoke Haoh with Short Jump HK.
A Groove Sagat - Can Sit on Meter. Can’t Punish the Heavy Slash. - Cannot Outpoke haoh with Short Jump HK.
P Groove Sagat - Has Short Jump. Can sit on Level 3. Cannot Roll or Roll cancel. Cannot Run. May outpoke Haoh with Short Jump HK, but cannot Roll or RC to escape corners, and cannot gain ground as fast. However, all in all, a good P groove is a headache.
S Groove Sagat - Cannot Sit on Level 3. Can Short Jump. Has no Roll. Again, mobility and escape problem. No Level 3 at all times = Heavy Slash’d
N Groove Sagat - Cannot Sit on Level 3. Can Short Jump. Can Roll. My biggest headache. Have 3 Dots = as good as Double length Level 3. It’s a long while and a hard fight and a lot of JD involved.
K Groove Sagat - Cannot Roll. cannot Sit on Meter. Can Short jump. Also a headache. but Zoneable and Trapable.
Why is the above important to how I use haoh? Simplistically put ;
Notice 4 Of the Grooves cannot Sit on Level 3. These are the same grooves that I can try to relentlessly poke and then slightly back off to when they suddenly get the meter.
Of C Groove, he has no short jump, so i play another type of game where I distance myself correctly and poke with anything but a closer Heavy Slash. That’s all, what else does Sagat punish?
Of P Groove, he has no roll, so that’s one option out of escaping as you try to force him into a corner. Option select really becomes 50/50 because of haoh’s S.MP and C.MP.
To be more on point, i would say that his Pokes and ground game are better than 70% of the Cast, So I will instead name those that seem to Outpoke him.
Vega (Spanish) at medium range.
Sagat with a run and low jump
Cammy at initial close range.
Hibiki - Not Outpoke, but pokes differently enough to irritate haoh.
I may be missing someone here, but these are the only people I know. Anything else please direct to Haoh thread.
Why is his Fireball even there?
To try and start his zoning.
When haoh jumps back and does his slow Hurricane Fireball, move forward or run forward (depending on opponent). No one will roll over the fireball. It’s a free MP. People will Stay, RC a move past, Jump over, neutralise it with their own fireball. When you force people into situations, you react accordingly.
Why is his Fake Fireball there?
If you ever, and when you do enough real fireballs and people neutralise them with their own. You do a fake one, they fireball, and you JD it. I kid you not. The first time you do it, they’re like going ‘WTH I just gave him 100 Dots of life and 1/12 of his bar…’
Your Pros and Cons are All Good. Except that when gameplay is concerned, some of his cons aren’t to his disadvantage, he just doesn’t seem to use them so much, and his Pros weightage is far stronger than any of his cons. Having a run and Short jump turns him into a totally different character. So people who play him a lot in A and not enough in K tend to think that he cannot hold up to a lot of the cast. It’s just one of the common misconceptions I guess. Even the way i put it seems like his Gameplay is all about S.MP and S.HP. But that’s because we’re talking specifically about the priorities of these two moves and how we can outpoke or outdo other characters with level 3.
Buktooth : I’m seriously not trying to spoil your thread, and if I sounded indignant, I’m sorry, but realise that my post in reply to yours was neutral and I actually said I would direct the rest to the haoh thread. It’s just the other players who haven’t played him seriously who come in and say things. I’ve played Haoh long enough to see that he isn’t ‘bottom’. He is more like floating Middle Tier, depending on Matchup. Frankly, i play a whole shitload of Random select too, just to practice my K, and I can feel that the the other characters you mentioned are at bottom…If I play against myself in K. My haoh would beat my king, kyosuke and dan flat.
If you forget why i’m here in this thread, read the first paragraph again. I’m not here because I’m offended. I’m not here because I’m trying to be an ass.
An opponent doesn’t need to wait for Haoh to come to them. Forcing someone to come to you is not the same as waiting for someone come to you. Guile forces you to come to him, but he isn’t waiting for you to do so, he’s keeping you out. That’s not letting or waiting for his opponent to come to him, that’s forcing his opponent to come to him. Same with Sagat shooting short Tiger Shots at Cammy, or doing s.shorts against anybody.
In Haoh’s case, he has nothing to discourage people from attacking him more or less freely, other than random fierces, which get super’d for free if blocked, as noted by Buktooth (something like -18 on block? You get the point) All Haoh has is frustration value- people get pissed and just walk into more jabs/strongs and eventually run into fierces. At least Vega has some offensive options…
Haoh’s not unusable, but he’s not particularly good, either.
Crimson, bring it to the Haohmaru Thread. I don’t know if you have played Haohmaru in K or not, and i feel bad if i were to interrupt Buktooth’s thread.
haoh’s footwork is terrible. that makes him an automatic sucky that sucks so freakin much.
What do you want to know on Vice?