No Buktooth, it’s all good. No wait, you’re all good. The only thing I thought about immediately writing my first post was how a multitude of sheep will just come out, read these posts and take it as the official “8 suckiest characters in CVS2”. You ARE a veteran in this game, you don’t know the influence you have. Just look at all the people coming out of the woodwork now saying that Haoh sucks based on his laggy move (not plural) or sucky supers, when they haven’t personally tried him seriously.
Haoh isn’t my favourite Character, (Todo and Dan are) but the thing is I’ve played him long enough to even admit he isn’t close to bottom 8 in K Groove. He isn’t even low tier, or sucky as some others might have put it. Again, he also isn’t ‘My’ character.
Granted his Slash is Punishable…by the high speed fast travelling Supers. And it’s not as easily punishable as it’s been said, Sagat can’t hit him if it’s the tip of the sword brushing against him. And even then, it’s only punishable by the Level 3s. Anyway it is blatantly obvious that one doesn’t chop when you’re at mid range, that’s what the S.MP is for.
Ok to ‘atone for my indignancy’ (read below to see my feelings about this), here is a list of characters that may punish him if they block his Heavy Slash at medium range. (That’s saying that a player went and did a heavy slash when he was in MP range, something which haoh does not do when his opponent has a level 3 that can punish) Those with an asterisk, I’m not even sure will work, but suddenly comes to mind.
Sagat - Level 3 high tiger Cannon
Cammy - Level 3 Spin Drive Smasher
Blanka - Level 3 Direct Lightning
Balrog (boxer) - Gigaton Blow
Chun Li - Level 3 Houyokusen*
Rolento - Level 3 Take no Prisoners
M.Bison - Mega Psycho Crusher
Guile - Sonic Hurricane
Kim - Level 3 Hououtenbuukyaku
Rock - Level 3 Shine Knuckle.
Ryo - Level 3 Ryukoranbu, Haohshoukouken*
Terry - Level 3 Buster Wolf *
Anyway, thing is, this is how I broke it down a long long time ago.
Let’s use just Sagat as an Example (Since a lot of people are going to be using him as an example of how scrubby Haoh is)…(not including you of course).
C Groove Sagat - Can Sit on level 3. Has no Short Jump. - Cannot outpoke Haoh with Short Jump HK.
A Groove Sagat - Can Sit on Meter. Can’t Punish the Heavy Slash. - Cannot Outpoke haoh with Short Jump HK.
P Groove Sagat - Has Short Jump. Can sit on Level 3. Cannot Roll or Roll cancel. Cannot Run. May outpoke Haoh with Short Jump HK, but cannot Roll or RC to escape corners, and cannot gain ground as fast. However, all in all, a good P groove is a headache.
S Groove Sagat - Cannot Sit on Level 3. Can Short Jump. Has no Roll. Again, mobility and escape problem. No Level 3 at all times = Heavy Slash’d
N Groove Sagat - Cannot Sit on Level 3. Can Short Jump. Can Roll. My biggest headache. Have 3 Dots = as good as Double length Level 3. It’s a long while and a hard fight and a lot of JD involved.
K Groove Sagat - Cannot Roll. cannot Sit on Meter. Can Short jump. Also a headache. but Zoneable and Trapable.
Why is the above important to how I use haoh? Simplistically put ;
Notice 4 Of the Grooves cannot Sit on Level 3. These are the same grooves that I can try to relentlessly poke and then slightly back off to when they suddenly get the meter.
Of C Groove, he has no short jump, so i play another type of game where I distance myself correctly and poke with anything but a closer Heavy Slash. That’s all, what else does Sagat punish?
Of P Groove, he has no roll, so that’s one option out of escaping as you try to force him into a corner. Option select really becomes 50/50 because of haoh’s S.MP and C.MP.
To be more on point, i would say that his Pokes and ground game are better than 70% of the Cast, So I will instead name those that seem to Outpoke him.
Vega (Spanish) at medium range.
Sagat with a run and low jump
Cammy at initial close range.
Hibiki - Not Outpoke, but pokes differently enough to irritate haoh.
I may be missing someone here, but these are the only people I know. Anything else please direct to Haoh thread.
Why is his Fireball even there?
To try and start his zoning.
When haoh jumps back and does his slow Hurricane Fireball, move forward or run forward (depending on opponent). No one will roll over the fireball. It’s a free MP. People will Stay, RC a move past, Jump over, neutralise it with their own fireball. When you force people into situations, you react accordingly.
Why is his Fake Fireball there?
If you ever, and when you do enough real fireballs and people neutralise them with their own. You do a fake one, they fireball, and you JD it. I kid you not. The first time you do it, they’re like going ‘WTH I just gave him 100 Dots of life and 1/12 of his bar…’
Your Pros and Cons are All Good. Except that when gameplay is concerned, some of his cons aren’t to his disadvantage, he just doesn’t seem to use them so much, and his Pros weightage is far stronger than any of his cons. Having a run and Short jump turns him into a totally different character. So people who play him a lot in A and not enough in K tend to think that he cannot hold up to a lot of the cast. It’s just one of the common misconceptions I guess. Even the way i put it seems like his Gameplay is all about S.MP and S.HP. But that’s because we’re talking specifically about the priorities of these two moves and how we can outpoke or outdo other characters with level 3.
Buktooth : I’m seriously not trying to spoil your thread, and if I sounded indignant, I’m sorry, but realise that my post in reply to yours was neutral and I actually said I would direct the rest to the haoh thread. It’s just the other players who haven’t played him seriously who come in and say things. I’ve played Haoh long enough to see that he isn’t ‘bottom’. He is more like floating Middle Tier, depending on Matchup. Frankly, i play a whole shitload of Random select too, just to practice my K, and I can feel that the the other characters you mentioned are at bottom…If I play against myself in K. My haoh would beat my king, kyosuke and dan flat.
If you forget why i’m here in this thread, read the first paragraph again. I’m not here because I’m offended. I’m not here because I’m trying to be an ass. 