you keep getting baited into posting
it’s pretty funny actually
still josh…
wassup mike you comin to eric’s tournament?
whats the date on that sumofabeyaaaaatch?
Oh really? Is that what he’s trying to? What an asshole!!! :lame: Proof that LZJ fucked this thread up!!! :mad:
You obviously missed the sarcasm in my post.
I wouldnt argue with buktooth’s call on sucky characters, coz he really has good points on why they really suck. But there wouldnt be any point in calling characters that had dominated tournies, especially evo, as weak. I wish buktooth would come back and clean this thread. Hes the reason why I got into A-rolento.
C-Ken is by far beter than A-Ken, thats all I have to say. C-ken can get more or equal damage off of lk’s and jabs with a lvl 2 that A-ken can get with a full bar. That’s good shit.
I agree that Ken is a little better on C-groove, But not BY FAR. I use him in my C team as well so I do know what you mean. A-ken is good too though. I can deal about 8000 to 10000 damage with A-ken in one combo, but that aint shit campared to a few videos I’ve seen of C-ken. Ken’s only really good on C,A and P. Dont get me wrong. He’s decent in other grooves, but not worth using in S,N or K.
HUH!? N shotos are one a few of the best N-groove characters. It’s just that you gotta be really good to make them effective
that usually is already the problem for 90% of the players 
You shouldnt have to work that hard to make a character good. Look at Maki. Such a good character, but you know why nobody uses her? Because shes too damn hard. I said shotos were decent on S,N and K, but they just dont have the same benifits as if you were playing them on C, A and P. There are certain characters that are better on certain grooves than others. Shotos arent as good on S, N and K as other characters are. I know people that own with N-Ryu and K-Ken/Ryu, but that doesnt mean there not better off in C, A and P groove.
I meant comboing the A-groove off of shorts. Ex. c.lk, c.lp, activate, c.mk… etc, does about half a bar. How often are you gonna land that big 10000 damage combo vs Ken’s lvl 2? Of course his normal customs does about 8000 (without comboing into to it usually), but that still is using a full bar to where Ken can use a level 2 and deal a fp less damage, equal or more with a jump in, and in a matter of seconds have a lvl 2 again. I use him in A also, as well as C. As for the S,N,K grooves, he is worth using in those grooves, N-Ken is so good. N-Ken is on the same level with A-Ken IMO. But hey, that’s just my opinion.
getting a full A-groove meter doesnt take much longer than getting a lv.2 super in C-groove. So basically that makes C-groove just a little bit better than A, but it’s so damn close. The only reason why I could ever see N-Ken as a big threat is because of roll cancel. But then again C and A have that option too. I hear alot of N-shotos so could you fill me in about why N-Ken is supposed to be so good. I’ve played lots of good N-Ryus before, but never a good N-Ken.
Before I start let me just say this is not a “I am right u r teh noobz!” post so don’t take it like that, I’m merely going to say what 100% of the top players will tell you.
Whether a character is hard to use or easy is NOT a measure of how good they are. It is a measure of how user-friendly they are, but not how good they are. A character can be the best in the game even if they require a LOT of effort to be good with.
- IMPORTANT NOTE: This is NOT the same as saying any character can be good if used properly and a lot of effort is put in. That is true but that’s not what we’re talking about here. -
N-Shoto’s are some of, if not the best N-characters there are. The three shoto’s gain a lot from N. Run is very good on all of them, short jump aids their already monster cross-ups, RC is available which they are good at utilising, Counter-Movement can lead to some devestating comboes (super and stun capabilities), quick level 3 access which works very well with the short-short-death thing shoto’s have going for them, and shoto’s have many uses for frequent lvl 1’s. This is just a quick simple overview of the excellent things N-Groove grants shoto’s. It pretty much gives them everything they could ever ask for, not a single ability goes to waste.
Now comes the problem, although these things make N-Shoto’s very good, they are not easy to do. Not at all. Consistent RC is not user-friendly. Nor is comboing into Pop-Super. Proper rushdown takes practice, as does getting use to comboeing of small jump. Knowing when to Pop for GC damage and not for super takes experience to understand. Counter-movement is probably the least examined technique if CvS2 to date, and I have seen some monster CM-Dizz-Pop-Super comboes. Learning whether to use your stock for lvl1/CM/save for level 3/Pop for GC.
Above are the reasons why N groove as a whole, not just N-Shoto’s, are’nt seen as often as other High-Tier characters. It takes skill and experience to really learn how to play N. It’s not so easy as short, short, CC or short, short, lvl2. If you do find someone who is good with N-Shoto’s you’ll see what I mean. The best example I can think of is Ohnuki’s Akuma. That guy knows his N-Shoto’s.
To answer you later question N-Ken is very good at pressuring the opponent. Useing the majority of the tools I listed earlier he is able to really shut down a lot of options. Think N-Ryu with RC Funky Kick
Just for the record, I think C-Ken>A-Ken>N-Ken. The fact is Ken is just a really good character, and that much better with RC.
^^Wow, explained absolutely perfect. Snakedizzle, there was actually a time when N-shotos were pretty high in the tier listing because of the sick rushdown. Many N-groove teams had at least one shoto. but now everyone is a lot better and new things where found to counter it like, turtle RC blanka, or “auto footsies” with cammy and sagat.
I prefer Ryu in S then any other groove.
I know EXACTLY what you mean. I use Sakura and shes extreamly hard to use effectively, but with practice I managed to learn one of the best characters in the game. I know that Ryu is good on N, but I didnt know about ken and akuma. Look at Maki, shes hard, but shes a good character thats always being underestimated. Please dont look at me like I’m somebody who thinks that a character is only good if they’re easy. I was just saying that a few characters are better on S,N and K. And this discussion started when I said that KEN wasnt as good on S, N and K. I didnt say that about Ryu and Akuma. I know that Ryu owns on N-groove. I was just looking at how high ken ranks as a C,A and P character. I also said that shotos werent bad on S,N and K. I just said that there are characters that are better on those grooves that were more suited. I just know that Ken is suited for C for his damaging combos and RC, A for his easy CCs that pack some damage and RC and P for all the shit he can do after parry and how he’s suited for P. I didnt know that he was good on N too. In the end there are characters that you would be better off using on SNK grooves, but that doesnt mean that they arent good.
N - Akuma is fucking sick.
Yeh man I know you weren’t dissin’ on N-Ken or anythin, I was just address your question about what makes him good in N, and clearing up a few misconception people have at the same time for anyone else who reads it.
Guardcrush you said it