This game just came out in all so it would take some time to know and get use to match ups. But I think to get a full understanding of the character and match ups is to first, get know know your character. Learn what you can and can’t do. And how to use your tools when you are at all ranges in the screen. When one has a good view on that and use to it all, you can then know what combo you are able to do, of how you would execute it depending on who you are playing and player habits.
Can’t learn to walk if you have don’t know how to balance yourself on your legs right?
The thing is, alot of people have largely different opinions on how this character is suppose to be used and generally it’s hard to explain into detail on what you should or shouldn’t do with said character, for the most part I want to go out on a limb and say she can be played under a multitude of different ways. But I think once people have gotten a solid understanding of the character new strategies can be found.
Looking at her Frame Data she has a decent amount of moves that give her frame advantage which in term are used for frame traps, I don’t want to say shes like Cody and is a character who relies off of frame traps, but the facts are there showing that she has good frame advantage, combined with one of the better CADC in the game, her throw game is also better then a large % of the cast. It’s hard to say is what Im getting at.
Personally I need to work on my execution(thats aways been a problem of mines), and understanding the games fundamentals and how they want you to play SFxTK, because it’s not SFIV, though they share alot of the basic fundamentals, some strong fundamentals in SFIV are not as strong here in SFxTK…like crouch techs for a example, or Anti’ Airs. Im sure you can get what im saying.
People play and think different. Not everyone will use the character the same way. People can also play different based on how the opponent plays and their habits.
Though I think I have figured out how to deal with hugo, and imo, I think Posion shuts him down.
For the most part, I hardly jump when fighting hugo. You would get air grabbed. And can put you in a bad position. Hugo has a hard time getting in on posion. I don’t see him having a solid approach against spaced fireballs. if you mix up the speed of her fireballs, It will be hard for hugo to jump in and not get hit. You have to take advantage of his speed and not stag inside him too much for you could get countered out of block. And that one counter can lead to alot of damage which poison can’t be risking. One good combo from hugo can equal about have your life bar.
When I get inside, I pressure him But I dont keep it gong for long, cause of his counter out of block. if I sense it, I would jump and fall with her j.HP. It’s good to punish moves just like that.
it’s easy to space hugo’s approaches dude to his speed and you have more range then he does. For this, its not that hard to anti air his J. down HP with your c.HP. And to escape his clap pressure, don’t back dash too often. I usually back flip to get a good distance away from him to zone him out. I have played some good b ranked hugos and have shut then down to a point they don’t wanna go hugo if poison is on the field. They switch out to their second character. Fireballs speed mix ups and spaced moves like s.MP/HP make it too hard for hugo to get in and land a good hit for a damaging combo on poison.
If he does his counter punch out of block, you can stop it with her EX fireball. It has 2 hitboxes and can hit him on the second hit before he hits you. So if you pressure hugo and have meter, mix up the pressure with EX fireball. Really if you have him in a corner. if that connects, its a free combo.
I see posion Being a good character to shut down characters who are slow and ones she out ranges.
Synergy with other characters is a huge deal in this game, even without assists it’s not something that can be ignored when determining a character’s overall effectiveness. Things like safe tag-in/tag-out options and tag combos are more important than anything. The thing that most people complain about Poison is her poor damage output, which can easily be remedied by having a partner that can extend her combos. Her general BnBs barely do 300 meterless at best, but when you factor in switch-cancelling, she can easily get 450-500 damage off a wake-up KBG at the cost of 1 meter.
Her neutral game otherwise is more than solid, and not many characters can do much about runaway Ravens, so that’s not Poison’s flaw. Any character that tries to play runaway against Poison has to watch out for EX LMT which will catch them unless they’re in the air, so she atleast has a better option than most of the cast.
Yet I made a entire thread talking about this very subject…ok lets stop for a minute -_-’ how are you getting 450-500 damage with 1 stock off a raw KBG? Second you kinda contradicted yourself “not many characters can do much about runaway ravens, so thats not Poison’s flaw. Any character that tries to play **runaway **against Poison has to watch out for EX LMT which will catch them unless they’re in the air” How does this make sense? Raven isn’t the only character with teleports, this is indeed a flaw with the character if she can’t deal with the situation as other characters(Ryu for example) can.
Listen, im not dumb or ignorant to the fact this is a team based fighter…If i made a thread completely about Team Synergy(and a Gem Thread to a lesser extent connected to team synergy), I would think I understand the importance of it, In that conversation, team synergy wouldn’t really help Poison as it more about the characters “natural flaw” then about her teammate covering for her, that was the Point. I don’t get this, you act like I hate the character YET I played her from day 1 and still am, I did not drop her, I just made a statement saying if your playing Ryu, you don’t have to work as hard, given the tools he has and this conversation got out of hand. As a heads up I’m sorry if I’m rude or anything to you.
KBG can be switch-cancelled to your partner for a combo. I use Jin, so I usually have to burn another meter for the damage but I can get ~450 damage starting with Poison KBG even at mid-screen. I’ve seen Hugo players get even more damage out of it without burning meter.
Sorry, but Raven craps on 95% of the cast. Ryu does a bit better against him, but the matchup is still in favor of Raven. Pitting Poison against a largely unbalanced character and saying she can’t do anything about it is hardly an argument against her. If you’re going to keep comparing her to Ryu, you have to understand that Ryu is pretty much top 3 in this game (at the moment anyway). He is just flat out solid in every way and not every character has the benefit of that. It doesn’t mean that Poison needs to be buffed. You don’t see people on the Law forums or Jin forums about them not being as good as Ryu.
ok…how are you getting the damage because raw(wake up or not) :mk: KGB (switch cancel to Hugo) Cr. :lp: > Clap ~ Backbreaker does 376 damage…for 1 stock, what are you doing to get the damage, give me some notations please.
Edit: same deal with Jin, with a fairly consistent combo of Shin Masatsu > Right Roundhouse Punch does 327 for 1 stock…
Ryu has always been the benchmark in SF period , he has been and always will be compared to the entire cast because he is the most basic character in the game, with that said it’s most likely why he’s stronger in this title out the gate then in previous games. If your not going to compare her to Ryu then who is a better example o_O .
While trying to prove a point -_- I’m not sure if anyone else found this out and posted this in the combo thread but I think I found a move were Poison can fish for a counter hit and lead into some better damaging with boost combos. CH Cr. :mp: / St. :mk:
Doing the math, Cr. :mp: is +4 on hit so adding in the +2 makes it +6, Cr. :mk: 's start up is 6 frames making it a 1 frame link. The Boost combo I did was this.
-CH Cr. :mp: ~ Cr. :mk: - Cr. :hp: > Launcher (switch to Jin) Cr. :mp: ~ Cr. :hp: > Special Step~Right hook for 353 damage.
Alternatively if you just do WoL after the Cr. :mk: you can get 250 damage~
Looking further into it, if you land a CH Cl. :hp: you can link into Cr. :mk: as well and that combo will do 287 damage ending with WoL.
Edit, further testing shows that st. :mk: is better for CH combos because frame data wise its pretty much identical to cl. :mk: . Though the move has less range then cr. :mp: it will combo ito cr. :mk: anywhere on the screen to most of the cast, and being a easier link to land is a added bonus.
You can potentially Frame Trap someone by using Cr. :lp: as its +3 on block, the start up of her close :hp: is again 6 frames. In SFxTK a large % of the cast don’t have 3 frame Jabs/Shorts so you can frame trap them as they are on the lines of being 4 to 5 frames on start up. Is it practical? not 100% sure on that yet…
Edit, Instead of Cl. :hp: , Cl./St. :mk: is a better choice as its +5 on hit and +1 on block making cr. short abit better from its normal 5 frame start up, as its the normal that will reach them from the pushback distance. Also apparently the +2 frame advantage works on shorts as well because you can link a CH. Cr. :lk: into Cr. :mk: as a 1 frame link.
Frame traps are nice and all, but damn its hard to open an opponent that down backs. EX LMT is nice, but once they wise up to the EX flash its like Poison is outta luck. I have yet to incorporate CADC throw yet, so maybe that’s the answer here
more or less, test their reactions. I wouldn’t say its a pattern or anything but usually after you throw them the first time they’ll be looking for throws…so frame traps will be stronger…but if they start to react to the frame traps and start mashing them your going have to mix it up…sometimes taking risk(like using her overhead) is enough to change what their looking for then go back to plan A or plan B. I would mix up normal tick throws with CADC throws and to really mix it up fake them out sometimes by using WoL as a block string to force a reversal DP because they have to be right on the exact frame to punish her. So…she has options…but…you still gotta work for it.
Yeah I’m only now trying to uncover her close range game. I’ll admit that her using her OH scares me because its pretty negative on hit, but I guess that’s not much of a risk on an opponent who down backs anyway. I’ve also been having trouble using her KBG as an anti-crossup. Is there a specific version that works better in that situation? Or is it mostly timing? PLENTY of times it looks like they’ll get hit by KBG but it whiffs for me
they have to be very deep in the crossup for them to be hit, but usually it works when your trying to be crossed up while crouching as they are already deep trying to hit your shrunk hit-box.
as far as the overhead goes, like i said before use it sparingly…because its so punishable. but use it to where they are aware of it’s existence. plus you have neutral jump as a mid-hitting attack too, so use pretty much use everything in your arsenal.
Well another thing I’ve been doing, though I know it unsafe lol, is occasionally finishing WoL to the last hit after I see that my opponent tries to poke after a previously blocked 1st rep of WoL. Seems to get a lot of people to stop pushing shit if it hits them, potentially setting up throw pressure or allowing me to use the first rep for freely to end block strings.
yeah that kind of thing is unsafe but if you “can” get away with it, then do what you gotta do. If needed, you can also mix it up with switch canceling the last hit of WoL into a Guile block string to keep the pressure and to change their mind set because Guile has way different normals and set ups that you can abuse when they are already pressured.
Anyone implementing cross-up, fake cross-up j.hp with any luck? I was messing with it in training mode, and after blocked cr.lk, cr.lp, cr.mk you are at a distance where, depending on timing of the button press, it can hit either side. Early for front, a little later for cross-up.
Much Agreed. It seems like Poison was maybe overpowered before and got nerfed too much before release or something.
That is my take on it.
Her Zoning is ok at best. It is not that great in this type of offensive game. So she can be opened up but the zoning doesn’t seem up to par.
She can’t cross up that well so she needs to be a great zoner character but her after delay on her fireball and her LMT/EX LMT is quite limited. And yes you can’t really open ppl up to well. The overhead well quite frankly sucks.
But she can still be used I suppose. As someone said. The game mechanics do not work in her favor.