I been trying out something with poison. Maybe you guys can help me with it and see if it is handy.
If you tag cancel her s.HP at max distance, have her incoming partner attack when he passes exactly were she is. Her partner will attack then instead of running all the way next to the oppenent. The only thing i couldnt do was a jumping attack. See if you can.
If you back is in the corner and you manage to have your opponent block a c.LP, you can do one more c.LP into s.LP, s.LP s.MP sHPxx tag cancel, do the thing i mention( name suggestion?).
The incoming character can still be hit depending on the oppenents character. The main thing i do is charge move back dash cancel.
p.s. i tried this with dhalsim and it works.
Aeolus Edge is a weird one. The LP version has a shit ton of recovery. MP and HP, however, have marginally smaller recoveries. For comparison’s sake, LP has 35f of recovery, MP has 31f, HP 28f, Guile’s LP SB has 23f and HP has 27f. Her fireballs are not bad at all, however you should always be aware of which version you want to use. Never use LP in footsie range or during blockstrings, try varying between MP and HP - I’ve had someone jump in on my HP Aeolus and I had enough time to actually block it. HP can also be used to beat anti-fireball Supers like Heihachi’s, since it stays on a single spot for a long time it can actually tag them out at the end of the invincibility - I actually traded with Heihachi’s super yesterday using it, it didn’t go into animation
Another thing I’d like to say is that zoning is far different in this game. Simply throwing fireballs will get you killed, and the fact that Aeolus is super chargeable is a godsend. Throwing a fireball should be the last thing you do when zoning, vary the timing by charging for a moment and releasing or simply charging into her EX, bait wavedashes / jump ins with it. Abuse the fact that Poison has the second best backdash in the game and a really good dash, you feint a fireball, they jump in, you dash under and then trip guard them into whatever or dash back and DP or AA SA as they fall.
Like I said before, KbG LK has 5f of startup and 6f of strike invincibility. MK is 8f / 9f. You just need to time it properly against jump ins and it will rarely lose or trade. Also see if you’re not using HK KbG because it has zero invincibility, that one is for combos only.
Also, how is having a good boost combo not good? Would you rather need to spend meter to switch cancel in order to do damage? You can hit her launcher from a half-screen poke - HP - and depending of your partner that means from 300 to 400 meterless damage, and then you can tag Poison back in if you feel like it.
I agree, but I also try to look on the bright side. She definitely has some stupid overhead properties though. I don’t know what the hell they were thinking with the un-combo able f. HP.
Yeah this is what I was talking about. I’ve been trying to explore it a bit more but if you just do cr.lk cr.mk cr.hk then have the incoming person just crouch jab on their way in both characters are 100% safe. I guess it would be called a tag cancel…cancel? I think it can apply to all characters. I have a friend making a video on it so other people can get an idea of how useful this could potentially be.
I wasn’t aware that they had varying startups/recovery. So they’re like Rose’s, but to a lesser extent. Good to know. I’ve been using LP because I heard that MP goes through fireballs? I know that there’s more to it than that, but it was deterring me from using it. Do we know the specific properties for that?
I don’t simply throw fireballs. I play Rose, I can’t simply throw fireballs with her either, but Rose has definite answers to pretty much every approach, and Poison’s answers feel like risks to me. I’ll admit to not really using KbaG much, though. Mostly because of how I tend to get stuffed when my opponent goes for poorly timed ambiguous jumps on my wakeup. I’m aware of the varying degrees of invincibility. I’ll try it out tonight.
I didn’t say a good boost combo wasn’t good. It’s nice to have of course, but I said that I didn’t think it was a good tradeoff for having one of the worst damage outputs in the game. My anchor (Lili) has great juggle potential off of a launcher, but boost combos scale damage a ridiculous amount and tagging your partner back in after a combo kills your momentum. It’d be nice to actually put some work in with Poison rather than having to use my anchor as a crutch as opposed to a compliment to Poison and vice versa.
That, and I don’t really like boost combos in general. They make me feel dirty.
I’m going to a friend’s house for games tonight. They’re streaming, so I’ll try and get on the stream station for a few matches so I can get some critique from you guys. I really do want to try and make Poison work, despite all this complaining I’m doing.
I def think she’s one of the weaker members of the cast. Not unplayable, but def someone I play as and think “Wow if I was playing as “X” character I could be doing this with a lot more success probably”
-Overhead woes
-Damage woes
-Low vitality
-Tag cancel woes
-Dependence on boost combos
-LmT seems really specific in use
-You kinda need alpha counter to be comfortable when under pressure IMO
Like I said, I don’t think she’s unplayable - it’s just you are afforded WAY less mistakes than other characters in nearly every field. Every hit you get counts that much more, every hit you receive hurts you that much more, you’re forced to take risks that a lot of other characters don’t but at the same time you can’t afford to take too many.
I’m going to stick with her just because I love her as a character, and I think she’s fun enough to play despite her shortcomings - but good God do I get rocked by some matchups.
I’m Sticking with her because there’s no other character i can pair up with zangief…the other characters i pair up with him or hugo usually ends with me getting destroyed with ease due to my basic combo’s or none at all
For one 950 isn’t low…its 50 points lower then average…wtf the highest is 1150 and 850 is at the bottom, the only female character in the entire roster with more health then Poison is Julia with a even 1000, why is 950 low?
Your totally going to tell me that Abel, Dhalsim, Geif and Bison have better Tag cancel options outside EX moves?..lolz
Dependent on Boost combos…really? I’d say she has more of a use for boost combos but not dependent.
Going out the way in saying that LMT has a specific use is like saying that a counter doesn’t have a specific use o_O where is the logic there? the move can be used in different ways…how is this a negative? I could see if you said that was slow and can be AA on reaction or if the move doesn’t do alot of damage on its own…sure but specific use?
Needing to burn 1 stock for the Cross Cancel isn’t nessasary all the time, like Jamp has stated before time and again, you can use the :lk: version of KBG(or :mk: )to get people off you as it has strike invulnerability, not everyone has air tight block strings. . .and Poison does have other ways out…if you neglect using her backdash that on you.
I can only agree with you on two Poisons…elbow drop is a bad overhead, there is no disputing it and she does low damage. Low damage is forgivable as she plenty of opportunities to deal damage, she has ways to get in and get out, not something everyone has access to.
Watching Chris Hu run her with Lili on Big Two. Poison builds the meter, uses pressure/pokes and hit confirms to link into Lili who does the damage, then go back to Poison and repeat. A simple but effective method. This is how I plan to use my Poison/Lili and Poison/Nina team.
Still, no matter what “flaws” people think of her, she’s my favourite and not gonna stop using her.
Gief and Abel don’t need tag cancel options - they’re grapplers and excel with meter, they’re supposed to come in OFF tag cancels and start the big damage up - Poison doesn’t seem to benefit much from excess meter as far as her combos go, which means she’s a prime candidate for point, which means by extension her having sub-par tag cancel options is a potential problem . Bison and Sim I won’t talk about since I haven’t seen enough of them yet to give a fair assessment.
When I say she’s dependent on boost I mean it’s one of the only ways she seems to synergize with her partner, at least for a variety of pairings. She doesn’t have any amazing tag cancelable specials like Scarlet Terror and the like that let her partner convert into huge tag combo damage. Sure you can argue that Poison herself is self-sufficient, but at the end of the day I think we’re going to see characters who promote synergy and thrive off certain partners other being much more solid than Poison who can run with anyone by virtue of being a loner.
So now let’s talk LmT. I’ve only ever seen it applied to on the opponent’s wakeup to give some semblance of a safe option to continue pressure on wakeup or for hopping corpses - and on the subject of corpse hopping if you try to cross them up and they time their forward roll out, they get out of pressure for free so there’s that to think about. The move is +3 on block but that doesn’t mean anything because anyone who isn’t asleep is going to hit you out of it if you even attempt to use it as a pressure tool, EX is overhead at the least. So unless I’m just overlooking something that I’ve just never seem come to light, the only real practical application for it is oki. Maybe “specific in use” wasn’t the best way to describe what I was trying to get at because like you said every move is “Specific in use”. Counters like you said are the definition of specific in use, however in this case it just feels like lost opportunity to have a tool that’s not used for anything more than some safe approach setups - but like I said maybe you know something I don’t here and I’ve overlooked another use.
Saying her low damage is somehow balanced out by opportunities she gets isn’t really solving the problem IMO, which is that any opportunity she can get is probably something that can also be accessed by other members of the cast who fulfill a similar roll. Sure, she has some nasty offensive frame traps - so do other members of the cast who have better overheads, damage, possibilities for more metered tag combos, and stronger normals. The one thing she does have going for her is a legit throw game compounded by pressure she can get off of dash canceled Aeolus, but I’m not sure that makes up for the things she can’t do.
That’s how I’ve been playing her with my Poison/Nina and Poison/Asuka teams. I’m still messing around with all of the characters so I can find my definite 2nd char.
@ prototype909, sigh ok first, don’t generally say because Abel and Geif are grapplers they dont need tag cancel options…that makes no sense becase TC can be used offensively and defensively…and on the contrary Abel and Geif both have TC options in the form of EX moves…I was merely kidding.
She doesn’t benifit from excess meter as far as combos go? are you serious? -_-’ EX Aeolus Edge does good damage and because you can combo off it from anywhere on the screen makes it really good…sure the combo is a 1 frame link…but damage is damage, i’ll get into why having meter is important for her alittle later…
you say Boost combos are the only way for her to have synergy with her partner, why…why don’t you mention corner combos that actually deal alot of damage, and if you TC you deal alot more…I wasn’t kidding about 500+ damage easy in the corner and if 500+ damage isn’t good enough for you then there isnt much for me to say. Having that corner option is important because ideally most of her damaging combos are guess where?..in the corner…why do you think they gave her so many moves to force her opponent into the corner? o_O its Cody all over again.
Love me tender isnt just a wake up tool, all normal version can get pass Projectiles…you have to be good at the timing but once you do you can use the move for what it was made for…Controlling Space. The move in general should keep your opponent from mindlessly chucking plasma, what better is actually having the EX version on deck if you need to use it for its obvious reasons. I’ve personally used the move as another means to beat lows as generic launchers are highly punishable.
Saying Poison is only good on Point is stupid…and completely goes against my current team of Jin/Poison. Jin is on Point…why, because he has one of the better boost combos in the game(202 damage before 50% damage scaling) He does decent damage, he has good moves to TC from, he can rushdown, ect, ect. I have different ways to get Poison in if i need to. When Poison is in she can do what she needs to do to win, if things get bad, i still got ways out or ways to get Jin in safely. Poison can deal alot of damage too off launchers or TC…i don’t get why you keep insisting she must be on Point.
her normal meterless damage is low…sure, i got that. it takes me two combos to do one Heihachi Combos damage…I still do damage, there are characters who around the same amount of damage as Poison like Cammy for example…but she still gets the job done. Im not seeing the big problem.
Im sorry if it seem like i was being derogatory but i just wanted to tell you that ever character has their own flaws…
Good stuff we are building in corner texh, can we take a moment to refresh on what it takes to force them into the corner?
I prefer doing bnb EX WOL combo into KBG has very good lateral movement. And can put you in range for LMTwhen you condition them to crouch guard, whioh because you struck overhead if using EX you have made yet another forceful entry into the corner
Well, it’s a bit gimmicky but if you got the meter to spare - Poison usually does - and you really want them in the corner, you could always do EX WoL into EX WoL.
