Whining about Fei Long and Fei Long Players thread with some Hawk mixed in

[Exarkun]

—Vs honda—

Honda usually gave fei some unadvantages in Super Turbo. One move in particular was his headbutt which conssitantly drowned out most of Fei’s starters for pressuring in strings. Another was his Orochi throw which kept Fei downed and usually in turtle mode.

In HD things are a different. Fei’s flame kicks are user friendly and do not require the precise time it did in ST. His rekkas are also safer considering the amount of distance they travel from afar.

Since the Chicken Wing has been nerfed really bad and honda can still out beat it with any strength of Headbut, Fei can still overcome these problems with using similiar strategy from ST fei but beefed up a little.

S. Fierce, Still stops hondas head dead cold. The S. RH is also a great way to keep Honda in rekka pressure distance and essential for fei to get in block damage. Flame Kicks are simple now, but can be punished regarding your execution of the move and the time honda gives fei some head.

Rekka Ken pressure couldn’t be any easier than this. This is guarantee to work on any character regarding distances. Keep in mind knowing the strenghs to push is key for keeping safe distance.

From afar- Fierce Rekka, Strong Rekka, Short Rekka
Close- Strong Rekka, Short Rekka, Short Rekka.
Sweep Distance- Fierce Rekka, Short Rekka, Short Rekka.

This will help utitlize pressure strings and meter building. Confusing the rekka patterns can be detrimental toward feis game, and cause an exploit for your patterns and eventually a lost match, mix up your patterns.

Close- Jab Rekka, C. RH/Throw
Jab Rekka, Jab Rekka, Pause, Strong Rekka Jab Rekka
Jab Rekka, S. Jab, S. Flame Kick
Strong Rekka, Jab Rekka Pause (Fei will still be in the Rekka recovery animation but you can execute the 3Hit Chain) Jab Rekka, Strong Rekka, Strong Rekka.

Most of fei’s key strengths is in his Rekka, unfortunately the Chicken Wing is dumbed out. beefing up ground game and rekka pressures is key for mix ups and pressure strings.

[Coth_X]

So here’s sirlin’s fei in some casuals.

[media=youtube]Nb_A8K9n0A4&feature=PlayList&p=BD1E570E0B1BADA8&index=4[/media]

3:32 to 4:30 is sirlin’s fei vs. honda in the second link.

[media=youtube]WCCVj1_JvLE&feature=PlayList&p=BD1E570E0B1BADA8&index=3[/media]

[Acku]

Nice matches, although I wonder why the Honda in the first round never blocks high? Anyway, great Wataah skills

[Xx_Thomahawk_xX]

Need help against good Dhalsim players, when i jump in he kicks me out the air, when i rekka he punchches me out of it, and when i do get close he beats on my head. Anybody got a cure for this.

[topknot]

try baiting the kick and use the flame kick to get in close. after that it should be pretty much cake.

[FreshOJ]

Need help against good Dhalsim players, when i jump in he kicks me out the air, when i rekka he punchches me out of it, and when i do get close he beats on my head. Anybody got a cure for this.

Read the Dhalsim thread! It’s funny. A lot of guys over there are having trouble against Fei Long.

You didn’t mention the two things that they do: Chicken Wing and cr. fierce.

[minty]

Need help against good Dhalsim players, when i jump in he kicks me out the air, when i rekka he punchches me out of it, and when i do get close he beats on my head. Anybody got a cure for this.

try baiting the kick and use the flame kick to get in close. after that it should be pretty much cake.

topknot is right about baiting it. If you know it’s coming, then use the flame kick (I would use the forward or roundhouse version since it scoops better). I can’t react fast enough to seeing the kick come out until it’s too late, but that’s a good attack to prevent them from throwing out the extended kick all the time. Eggo (dhalsim player), said you could uppercut it (figured that the extended limbs would turn Fei’s standing fierce into a close fierce). I’ve never tried that since I haven’t seen a Sim online for awhile, but that’s another option. I do know you can use your sweep if Sim tries his lower extended punches (Higher Jin mentioned this also).

Eggo and I have been in messages talking about the Fei and Sim battle and here is what he’s told me:

Originally Posted by **Eggo **
If a Dhalsim is sticking out too many limbs, you can uppercut him. Once he stops sticking things out predictably, CW to get in, then start the pain. If he fireballs, you can jump over, RH kick, standing fierce, rekka = dizzy. Do it again = dead, full health meter gone.

Originally Posted by **Eggo **
You can’t let Sim get comfortable enough where he can slow fireball you from across the screen then kick anything you do after it. If you think he’s going to fireball, you either jump in before he throws it and make him pay, or you CW.

If he’s zoning you with normal moves, flame kick hits all of those. Just crowd his space and apply pressure with varying CW’s. Once you’re next to him, you can do anything you want.

That above is usually when the Sim kicking game comes into play, so try not to be that far away. You always want to be in rekka range to be the most dangerous but it’s really hard for Fei since he gets pushed back (or thrown back ) so easily in this matchup.

[minty]

This will help utitlize pressure strings and meter building. Confusing the rekka patterns can be detrimental toward feis game, and cause an exploit for your patterns and eventually a lost match, mix up your patterns.

Close- Jab Rekka, C. RH/Throw
Jab Rekka, Jab Rekka, Pause, Strong Rekka Jab Rekka
Jab Rekka, S. Jab, S. Flame Kick
Strong Rekka, Jab Rekka Pause (Fei will still be in the Rekka recovery animation but you can execute the 3Hit Chain) Jab Rekka, Strong Rekka, Strong Rekka.

To followup on this, are you guys doing “on the fly” rekkas? Or do you already know what rekka pressure combination you’re going to be doing from the position you are to the opponent? I remember reading about hit confirmation, but by the time you’re waiting for a hit confirmation, they will be blocking your 3rd rekka (maybe even the 2nd rekka). Or is it just, pow, pow, pow (do whatever rekka string for that range, but really quick)?

I’ve gotten so used to it (“on the fly” rekkas), that I’m thinking this isn’t the method of many Fei players at all. I usually start up with an MP or FP rekka and then figure out what to do … but that’s pretty tough (and probably the reason I get swept or thrown out).

Just wondering how you guys approach this tactic … do you guys wait for a hit on the first rekka? (if so, I really need to work on my reflexes to get it out as quick as some of you guys :karate:)

[First_To_5_Wins]

I haven’t been playing great Honda’s or anything, but I’ve been using something lately that’s been working for me:

s.LK the headbutts (I know it’s boring to mash LK all match…) then immediately follow up with a cr.HP. Since it’s Honda, and he’s charging, he’s always going to block it. Train him with that pattern a few times and then go in with the j.MK. Fucking move works way better than it should and it leads to a free throw almost all the time- by then you should have him in the corner. Fei is a beast when he’s got someone cornered.

I’ve played against so many Honda’s that now I’m finally starting to get a good feel for how to beat him.

[System_1]

I haven’t been playing great Honda’s or anything, but I’ve been using something lately that’s been working for me:

s.LK the headbutts (I know it’s boring to mash LK all match…) then immediately follow up with a cr.HP. Since it’s Honda, and he’s charging, he’s always going to block it. Train him with that pattern a few times and then go in with the j.MK. Fucking move works way better than it should and it leads to a free throw almost all the time- by then you should have him in the corner. Fei is a beast when he’s got someone cornered.

I’ve played against so many Honda’s that now I’m finally starting to get a good feel for how to beat him.

just gotta be careful of that stored ochio / j.headbutt, though… cant let him train you into thinking that jumpins are safe

[System_1]

just a little thing i found out / re-remembered.

Boxer match = c.mp.

That is all

[Vandal_Hearts]

do you guys wait for a hit on the first rekka? (if so, I really need to work on my reflexes to get it out as quick as some of you guys :karate:)

I think until hit confirmation becomes easier, throwing two rekkas out (the second rekka being a lower strength) in anticipation of blocks is good.

[Acku]

Two rekkas is normally safe, its the third one that has to be spaced very well.

Honda is becoming easier lately for me, using the st HP (handshake) thing pro-actively close really breaks a lot of his attacks. Main danger is his standing sweep, which seems to beat it very well. If they dont use it, you actually can press an advantage. CW hops over HHS if he does it alot.

I do hate Akuma with his high damage juggles. Shotos can abuse hurricane because it beats a lot (except rekka), especially jumpins and CW. Akuma can add to the damage with a free DP afterards, often getting me 1/3 damage. That is a killer. At the start of a round I usually rekka (losing to dp, winning to fireball/hurricane/air FB), because his opening hurricane can be devstatng to anything else.

[Xx_Thomahawk_xX]

ooooooooohhhhhh. so flame kicks do beat out ranged normals, and the uppers and sweeps, i didnt kno that, I was skeptikal cus I thought I would just get hit out of that too. Thanks for these tips.

[FreshOJ]

ooooooooohhhhhh. so flame kicks do beat out ranged normals, and the uppers and sweeps, i didnt kno that, I was skeptikal cus I thought I would just get hit out of that too. Thanks for these tips.

The Flame Kick is his DP. It’s his highest priority move. It beats practically everything. Use it accordingly.

[minty]

I got a chickenwing question for you guys. So I’ve tried to check the hitboxes on it and I don’t have anything that can freeze frame it, but do ALL of the chickenwing versions have some frames that go through fireballs/specials?

When playing online and offline, sometimes when I’m attempting a longer range chickenwing, I actually pass through fireballs when it looks like it shouldn’t (chickenwing motion is done before fireball is close to me, but chickenwing only leaves when fireball is a Fei jab away). I’ve even passed through Honda when he was a standing jab away from me with his headbutt (he started off from almost the left edge of the screen towards me).

Like I said, the startup in the hitbox for the chickenwing is too fast for me too tell what is going on with the forward and roundhouse version of the chickenwing (you can totally see what happens in the short cw). Someone know how it’s passing through?

[jchensor]

I got a chickenwing question for you guys. So I’ve tried to check the hitboxes on it and I don’t have anything that can freeze frame it, but do ALL of the chickenwing versions have some frames that go through fireballs/specials?

When playing online and offline, sometimes when I’m attempting a longer range chickenwing, I actually pass through fireballs when it looks like it shouldn’t (chickenwing motion is done before fireball is close to me, but chickenwing only leaves when fireball is a Fei jab away). I’ve even passed through Honda when he was a standing jab away from me with his headbutt (he started off from almost the left edge of the screen towards me).

Like I said, the startup in the hitbox for the chickenwing is too fast for me too tell what is going on with the forward and roundhouse version of the chickenwing (you can totally see what happens in the short cw). Someone know how it’s passing through?

I think the Chicken Wings have always had a small ability to go through Low Tigers from Sagat, even in Vanilla ST… required precise timing, but it did work.

I don’t think the Invincibility of Fei Long’s Forward and Roundhouse Chicken Wings were changed in HD Remix, unless Sirlin messed up when putting the original hit frames back (all three versions WERE invincible slightly at start in beta versions, but it was REALLY buff). Maybe they can go through, but only when super close up with perfect timing. And probably only through Fierce Fireballs. I haven’t seen it. Which character did it happen against?

And even the long range ones go through Honda’s headbutt?

• James

[minty]

I think the Chicken Wings have always had a small ability to go through Low Tigers from Sagat, even in Vanilla ST… required precise timing, but it did work.

I don’t think the Invincibility of Fei Long’s Forward and Roundhouse Chicken Wings were changed in HD Remix, unless Sirlin messed up when putting the original hit frames back (all three versions WERE invincible slightly at start in beta versions, but it was REALLY buff). Maybe they can go through, but only when super close up with perfect timing. And probably only through Fierce Fireballs. I haven’t seen it. Which character did it happen against?

And even the long range ones go through Honda’s headbutt?

• James

Hrm, I took a look at the ST wiki again and Jumpsuit mentions that the chickenwing has “some odd startup invincibility properties”. That must be it. I recalled reading Sirlin’s Fei design decisions and thought the short version was the only one with invulnerable status in the beginning but missed that tiny snippet in the ST Fei wiki.

The fireballs I went through came from playing against Ryu and Akuma (roundhouse chickenwing). I’ve went through Honda’s headbutt and Bison’s psycho crusher with the roundhouse chickenwing as well. Each time, when I was about to be hit, they were less than a jab distance away when the chickenwing started its movement.

[System_1]

i’ve had the same things as minty happen, usually when people are trying to meaty me with their specials. IIRC, i have been able to do it with flame kicks as well.

All these, I have gone through:

Blanka ball
Psychocrusher
Headbutt
Shotoballs
Sonic Booms

Things I have not been through:
Tigerballs
TK
Any Dragon Punch

[Xx_Thomahawk_xX]

I was just about to ask something like this. When im down to the last hit and im knocked down I just get fireballed and lose from chip damege. does fei have a move to prevent this or is he just screwed?