If people were playing with the choice between ST and Remix characters which would you choose for each character?
I know some are obvious, people would choose O. Sagat over new, but a lot of them I’m not sure about. I didn’t expect people to say chun is weaker, or fei long, until the game was out for a while. Can we get a list of who is improved and who is worse?
Most characters are strictly better than their old versions, thanks to Sirlin’s “smooth out the tiers” balancing philosophy and ST’s large quantity of low or mid-tier characters.
Characters that are up for debate, in my mind:
Sagat
T.Hawk
Fei Long
Chun Li
Characters that have arguably been nerfed:
Dhalsim
Balrog (Boxer)
Vega (Claw)
I actually don’t think it’s up for debate: Chun Li is worse in this game than she was in vanilla. The nerf of her Super’s damage is HUGE, IMO. Add to that the fact that her D/F Roundhouse isn’t as effective, her ability to get free meter charge from Air Bird Kick is gone, and if you are charged Up + Roundhouse anti-air gets you air Bird Kicks by accident… I don’t think there’s any question. Her new Bird Kick really doesn’t add anything to her game.
Sagat worse. The 38 frame recovery on all tigers is way too good for O.Sagat. No amount of combo-ability makes up for it. IMHO :china:
Claw worse.
Sim worse.
Boxer WAY worse.
Chun worse.
Ryu better.
DJ better.
Honda better.
Blanka better.
Gief better.
Guile better.
Cammy better.
Dic better.
Not sure about Hawk.Need more time to decide. It is tuff to decide. See Ryu’s post below.
Not sure about Ken. Losing the knees was a big deal. NOt sure if the new Uppercut makes up for it.
Not sure about Fei. Sabre utlizes the new changes to Fei better than anyone on-line. So I need to see it a bit more before I can give my opinion.
For the record, I don’t think the “worse” characters are bad characters, I just think they have to work a bit harder to win compared to their ST counter parts.
As a Chun player, I’d pick ST Chun, easy. The risk of the backflip kick for a much better Air SBK, a slightly more useful Normal SBK, a waaaaay stronger super, a crossup DF+RH, and no threat of accidentally getting an Air SBK on accident. It’s hard to argue with a straight face that HD Chun is BAD, but ST Chun was definitely much, much better.
Yeah… I couldn’t understand the “Chun’s new SBK is now useful” comment.
id choose st fei and o.hawk over remix hawk and remix fei
Debatable I think. Non-knockdown dive makes him worse against Gief and against Guile. Makes him better against Sim thats for sure.
No more safe jump/release method trap makes a lot of matchups a lot harder.
^^^^^ Shit… GOOD point the trap slipped my mind. I was thinking about his normals. I think I have to change that a bit.
Both O.Hawk and N.Hawk are superior largely to R.Hawk.
R.Hawk has better normals than N.Hawk but worse normals than O.Hawk.
R.Hawk has the worst dive of the three by far.
And R.Hawk has the throw whiff, which means negative edge command throwing is a thing of the past, one of the biggest nerfs in all of ST:HDR.
R.Hawk’s biggest benefits are largely superficial…new throw inputs and a ‘safer’ dive that was safe against the majority of the cast and already knocked down anyways.
R.Hawk can soften throws and has a super that O.Hawk doesn’t have. But R.Hawk can whiff the throw if you are out of range or if you miss time the 720 and only get a 360.
ST Rog and Claw any day 
I like the new ken better.
I also like Remix Ken better, not that i didnt like old ken, just play better with the new one. :wgrin:
N. Sim over R. Sim any day of the week.
I had to pick a new character for Remix because I want to maintain my Classic ST skillset and automatically doing qcb+punch for yoga flame in Classic really does not appeal to me.
On that note, I wouldn’t necessarily say Dee Jay is completely better in Remix. R. Dee Jay is definitely easier to play.
Lastly, I think anyone would pick Classic Gouki over Remix Gouki, but that kind of goes without saying.
I would also think the same for R. Ryu over N. Ryu, but his fake fireball might actually interfere with stuff like renda cancel and the dp/hurricane input anti-crossup trick.
ST Chun is the stupidest character in the game. ST Claw, Honda, Sagat, and whoever can bs their way to victory in some cases, but overall they’re fine characters who are only over the top in 1-2 ways and not that far from being reasonable; R Claw and Sagat seem basically there, and R Honda is now pretty much fine in all his matchups except like 3 or 4, and he’s just a slight nerf (and buffs to those opponents) away from being well balanced overall. But Chun is this retarded character who isn’t just a little over the top and doesn’t have just 1-2 bs things. No, almost everything good about her is varying degrees of bs. When a character’s good points are like random-crossup flipkick, storable very damaging super, retarded air normals, and a strong button that makes a sick option-select tick/throw and does spd damage as a throw, that is, if a character is good almost entirely because of retarded things, and if you want to make a game that’s less retarded, what are you gonna do about her while still keeping her a good character?
Sirlin tried to make her a bit less retarded, not even as less retarded as I’d hoped (I wanted stored super lost and strong throw to do less damage as well), but what are you gonna give her to make up for that? Buff her already retarded normals? Make her fireball even better? Make her move even faster? Make her upkicks (which she didn’t even need in the first place) better? There aren’t any very good options here. I basically think ST Chun Li is unsalvageable as a high tier character without a serious overhaul, and I’m certainly no Chun expert, so I have no idea what that overhaul should have looked like. R Chun doesn’t seem to be it, but that shouldn’t be surprising.
R. Chun is not even close to the threat ST Chun is, so you should be glad for that much right?
All my chars are Chun-counters (Ryu/Ken/Fei/Hawk) so I never shared the hate most people did for her. I usually reserve that hate for Vega/Bison.
R. Ryu is undisputably better than N. Ryu (assuming super damage reduction was a system-wide thing and not a character specific trait), but it doesn’t help me since I preferred O. Ryu even though he might not be as good a character.
O. Ken is arguably better than R. Ken.
R. Sim kinda blows compared to N. Sim, but they were fair changes.
how is o.ken better than r.ken, or even n.ken? even in st, n.ken is way better that o.ken, and theres no disputing the fact that r.ken is easily better than n.ken.
I use o.ken as one of my mains, and even I know n.ken and especially r.ken are more versatile versions with more meat. just an IMO =)
i like r.fei better than n.fei =)
all the characters i use are much better in remix. ryu,ken,guile,deejay,fei(i know fei is hugely debatable).
r.dictator is obviously better
r.honda is better
r.blanka is better
r.gief is better
r.ryu is better
r.ken is better
r.deejay is better
r.guile is better
r.cammy is better
r.fei is too debatable. i think hes better. but i think i am a lone exception to the rule.
r.hawk, i’m not pro with him, but i think hes more fleshed out in remix, therefore I think hes better in remix
r.chun is definitely worse
r.sim is worse
boxer is worse
claw is worse
sagat is worse
all the worse characters, are hardly worse to the point where it doesnt matter too much, but yeah, choosing st version over remix would be the wiser choice.
i keep hearing people say r.hawk is more fleshed out. what are you trying to say? i dont understand. a throw whiff and a safe dive makes him more fleshed out?
o.hawk anyday over R.hawk
as in hes less of a 1 dimensional character. he actually has some good versatility now since he can bring more constant pressure with his better normals and his dive. so they get rid of his braindead stupid option select, big fucking whoop. his tick throw game is still no joke.
i guess poor hawk players have to learn more than 1 tactic now. darn
i think r.hawk is the best version of hawk so far. imo
why are people saying r.ryu is better? All he got was a fake FB and the only way to make that effective is to put a mind game on it. Personally, I don’t think the fake FB adds thats much to his game.
You need to play better ryu players. That shit is DEADLY.
He does feel more fleshed out to me, at least. He has good O. Hawk normals and the super. The dive is also better against certain characters, although it is admittedly worse against others.
I too think he’s better, but only marginally so. Would it really have hurt to give short chicken wing the ST recovery time? And to make sure it doesn’t whiff when the first hit connects? That’s seriously annoying in matches. I also think the new recovery time on flame kick makes it punishable by too many things when you consider that Fei HAS to do it after a close chicken wing or else he gets thrown.