Shout outs to Primal Rage
Um here is one of them making a thread about it? What are you rambling about? You hear this stuff all the time, I want to see a game like this too.
Really now? The 90s you say? What were some of these games? As far as I know, fighting games were going strong until we reached the end of the 90s. The actual SF clones were very early in the decade and were not responsible for killing off anything, in fact they developed into great games. Fatal Fury Special and Karnov spring to mind specifically.
What I really don’t get is the sheer hostility in some of the replies. What’s the deal? Did the OP offend someone by not liking an anime combo fighter? I thought this behavior only applied to Crapcom fans mashing out their DPs in SF4 (or whatever the cool kids say).
How many great alternatives did you have in the 90s? I can’t really think of a single game in the same style that could match ST or HF.
But if you are willing to tolerate IP’s that are popular in japan but not here, there’s a new wave of more old-school fighting games lately. (AP,SKM etc.)
I just want a sequel to Garou…
I’ll try KOF13, but really, I just don’t like the idea of using a team of characters (fatal fury>kof. come at me). Still, if I ever want to see another MOTW … gotta keep snk in the black.
KoFXIII has a 1 on 1 mode.
Garou.
Oh shit I forgot about Chaos Breaker. This is totally what you are looking for IMO.
Why would anyone want a clone? We have all these scrubs talking about CE and HF, asking for games with “options” and “new things”, but they have no real clue of how to properly play those games in the first place. If you have never played any of those competitively, you have zero reasons to search for another game that also has a small player base. Go learn to advance and pressure whiffed medium normals, Tatsu through projectiles and trade with Guile and Ken’s slow projectiles with long range moves before you ask for something different from a thing you do not actually know.
Citation needed. Jab Fighter IV AE is the game with most tournaments around, at the moment, in Brazil, and I doubt it is much different in Europe. Either that, or they have few fighting game tournaments, no matter that game.
But MK clones are SF clones, cos MK is a SF2 clone itself. The first one is a prime example of the damage the clones did: Mortal Kombat one sucks, and still it did draw players from the SF2 (CE/HF, namely) base. It was mostly bad players, but if you take the bad players away from, say, SF4, you kill the massive attention it creates, which is basically the main quality of the game. MK2 also attracted legions of scrubs, who found it amazing to spam that Lightning Legs clone move of Baraka’s and win.
I mostly agree with tataki’s message, but in fact there were a few good games by the time ST was released, such as Fatal Fury Special. But SNK fans did not like it, cos it was not flashy.
yeah, but no one is gonna play it. i mean, i guess i could, but playing with yourself is only fun for so long.
:smokin:
Hecatom means that USA is the only country that puts SF above all others. Japan plays it, but they also play a lot of others, just as everywhere else. America plays either SF or Tekken… or Smash.
As for MK being a SF clone, that’s some bullshit. Other than being a 2D fighter, MK did nothing like SF did.
Actually the US is the largest market for any and all games at this point so that argument really no longer holds any water friend.
KoF fans will put KoF aboive all others and refuse to play something different too. There is not much difference, really.
As for MK, it had an athletic female character, two martial artist half-clones, projectiles from a distance, “body projectile” specials, grab specials, throws based on proximity overlapped with HP, unplayable bosses, bonus for time, life and perfects, sweep kicks for a faster form of knockdown, and so on. Many moves are a clone of a SF move. You just have different properties for hit and blockstun, a different command for blocking (notice that blocking recovery on whiff also exists in SF2, and is very important in footsies), less variety in terms of normal attacks and very different frame data.
I share your opinion that people who call the pre-ST games simple have pretty much no idea what actually goes into playing them. They watch some footage and all they can see is people throwing fireballs or something equally as stupid. That said, no one wants an actual clone I’m sure.
MK cloned all the dressings of SF2 gameplay, but that’s about it. I don’t think it can be called a clone just because the developers intended it to be, or because it was a direct competitor.
Ryu / Ken - Hado / Dp / Tatsu
Sub Zero / Scorp - Freezing fireball / Grappling & retractable projectile, Slide / Teleport punch
Yeah, they’re the same. They might LOOK alike… but ninjas versus gi-wearing karate heads and the similar normal moves is where it ends. Their special moves are completely different, which SF didn’t start doing until ST, honestly. Different properties, but the moves were the same.
Chun and Sonia? Really? Remember that SOnia came out BEFORE Cammy. But spinning bird kicks versus a purple ring fireball and that box jump thing? NOTHING alike. Both athetlic? Find me a fat bitch in a fighter, sans that wrestler from Tobal, and you get a cookie. That’s again, a null argument.
Liu came before Fei
Nobody matches Raiden, Kano, Cage, or definitely Goro or Tsung. Completely different there.
Smooth motions versus directional inputs. Most shit was b, f+p or something like that. You can’t throw a hado by tapping down, then forward+punch. You need that QCF motion.
Most fighters had unplayable bosses at that time, so that’s a null argument.
Perfects were called flawless, not perfect.
Sweeps? Seriously? A universal B+LK versus d+roundhouse? There were universal moves in this game, like the roundhouse, sweep, and uppercut. That doesn’t exist in SF2.
Some projectiles curved, which was never seen in SF (E.g. Johnny Cage’s)
Stage interactions (The Pit)
Fatalities.
Yeah, SF and MK… same fucking game.
You’re using things like “knockdowns” and “score” in your argument, but knockdowns are in almost every genre of games in some way or shape, and score? REALLY? Time bonuses? Every game that has a score gives you a time bonus, but somehow, Tobias and Boon managed to steal that DIRECTLY from Street Fighter?
Japan is the largest market for FIGHTING GAMES, and that’s what matters to us in this discussion. And they get exclusives for arcades that most of us can only dream of seeing on consoles.
The person you are quoting is absolutely right. They directly took the dressings of Street Fighter 2, the things they felt made it a game kids would put coins into. There was no other point of reference at the time anyway, what seems like an ordinary concept now simply did not exist before SF2. The gameplay is different by accident more than design. Your long winded post is so meaningless, it doesn’t address a thing the guy was talking about.
There’s nothing new about making something that produces money. They might have had influence, but they intentionally were trying to design a game that was different than Street Fighter, as stated by Ed Boon in an interview, wayyyy back into the early 90s. Their goal was to steal the SF audience, essentially. Not copy it.
My friend, I am not sure if you feel I was flaming you or the like, I was not. I was just pointing out that MK did borrow a lot of things from SF. There are lots of things which are different, but also lots of things which are the same or similar. I will go sentence to sentence in order to show my point and provide clarifications. I do not wish to cause any stress or the like, I want to make that clear.
The first clarifications I would make is that I had not mentioned Fei, he was not in CE and HF. But you could consider him a protagonist that’s a martial artist and that’s it, mostly, which is similar to Ryu’s story, or lack thereof. The way they name beating a character without losing life is not relevant, IMHO, I meant they did the same SF2 did just by switching names. Fatalities are also only relevant for marketing aspects: it does not actually add value in terms of competition and depth.
Kano’s rolling move is clearly a Blanka’s ball ripoff. His projectile is a Sonic Boom ripoff. Most other clones also mixed moves. There are other copy-paste moves.
As you have mentioned, the SF2 default way to obtain a sweep is down+Roundhouse. It works for all characters, such as towards + Fierce throws all characters (even though I believe Boxer has no throw in WW, but he is not even playable). MK simply created a different command and sort of unified the animation and properties.
Claw interacts with his stage, which also has no competitive value. IIRC, The Pit and Mesón de la Taberna are the only stages with such interactions. SFII actually has more, with barrels, statues and other stuff that breaks when a character fall over them. Again, with close to no influence in gameplay.
I do not think commands are relevant at all. FF already had different commands. I believe the vast majority of the clones had specials with different stick motions. The hacked versions did have back,towards+button, for instance.
I have never stated that SF2 and MK1 played the same. The other clones also did not, in many cases cos they often completely lacked key aspects such as blockstun, hitstun, vulnerability in hitstun, etc. MK1 is a much more polished game, but the final result was still much inferior to the SF games of that era, which BTW was the reason Midway delayed its release, so it would not compete with CE. Stating that it is not a clone cos it plays differently is equivalent to stating there were no clones of SF2 in the nineties, cos every game has properties that either create different strategies or, more commonly, resulted in a degenerated gameplay due to bad design (the “bottom of the barrel” thread has many examples of this).
Damn, I wonder why we we have to wait 6months + on average to get a game the japanese are playing, and that’s only when they release that shit in the u.s. Still wondering when I’m gonna be able to play my Tales of Graces and my Tales of Xillia in english, as well as my Ace Attorney Investigations 2. I mean, I live in the largest market, those games are obviously designed for me, so why can’t I play them?
So you were talking about the general idea of a fighting game, and I was talking about specifics of the engine.
Gotcha.