You should probably clarify this to say that it’s much easier to land the former once past midscreen. You can still land the knee up until the point in which they are completely in the corner before you try to hit them with the first one. It’s not very reliable though after midscreen, and I wouldn’t be suprised if it’s also character dependent. If I know I am close to the corner, I just opt for the easy, but lesser damage.
I have no idea how people are juggling the knee off of a crouching jab though. They are way too low whenever I try that and the jab doesn’t raise them high enough to get around the startup of the knee.
Its way easier off the crouching jab. Also more damage when you do cr. lp, knee, hp xx running bomb…
The Ex version has invincibility, I think 20 frames or s on the the startup. In the set up i describe, where you do your cross p and if the block you do it, naturally assuming they then block low, I REALLY want/need that damage. If for some reason they are mashing, it will still catch them. The ex one alway seems to catch them, the reugular one does not. I don’t really find it a waste of meter because I always pretty much go in with king with two bars; one to do post tag combo damage, and then one to get him out safely. It doesn’t feel like a waste since I am accomplishing what I set out to do with the meter in the first place. .
Also you build meter in this game incredibly fast, so I totally think its worth it.
Guys, after combos ending with 623p what is your timing to safejump/ crossup correctly the waking opponent? I try to walk abit back and whiff a crouching jab and then jump towards them with jmk.
There’s walls of text everywhere so excuse me if I missed this, but I didn’t see it. Beucase of King’s unwieldy long start up on his command grabs (18 frames!) it can be hard to get them out against someone who might not want to just be sitting there, BUT because the startup is so long, you get to do things that other grapplers can’t do, and that is cancel a normal into command grab for a tick throw attempt.
Basically I do cr.LP, cr.LP as a block string, and from that point I confirm whether or not my opponent is blocking and whether they are blocking high or blocking low, and if they are blocking, let’s say low for instance, I’ll do cr.LP xx Shining Wizard and if they’re expecting a block string they get thrown. It basically turns your 18 frame startup command grab into a 6 or 7 frame startup, but is hidden in a block string. It can still get beat out of someone mashes, so you can always substitute EX where necessary.
yup stuff like that is somewhere in there (i am going to try and clean up the thread some point this week, sorry for the walls of text and junk, I will make it more organized) but keep the tech coming!
More and more I am finding that giant swing is not being used in my gameplay. If they are blocking high because they are scared to block low due to shining wizard, then going for a combo starting with a low will score more damage, at less risk and possibly the same/less meter depending on the combo.
I am trying to implement in ways so that it can be an option to get a decently safe tag due to how far it throws them, but nothing to practical yet.
So far I’ve found Giant Swing to be useful in 2 cases
When they’re tagging and too far away to hit with anything else (does more damage than his pokes)
EX as a reversal, works well against standing frame traps
Otherwise I’d pretty much always go for the cr.:mk: and chain into cr.:hp: xx EX Konvict. If you don’t have any meter, well, you should probably go to the Launcher to get King the hell out of there. The EX is really useful against some chains however; Rolento can try and frametrap you by going into his unsafe Rekka’s, but you can EX Swing through that for example
I would still rather use low forward xx. qcb punch. It may do less damage (haven’t checked the numbers, heh, that’s how much I use giant swing), but its still better for positing to setup something afterward for king. It will hit from roughly around the same max range as giant swing, if not greater.
I have I thought about using EX giant swing for reversal, but was not sure about what the success rate would be like. If you say it works, then awesome! I will have to try it out. Thanks!
As for rolento’s unsafe rekkas, sorry do you mean like between the normal and the rekka? or the rekka’s themselves? because if its the rekkas them selves, I would rather wait for them to be unsafe on the block, then do the punish of my choosing rather then spend more/the same meter (depending on follow up I choose) for less damage and better positioning for a follow up (or just launch to get King the fuck out).
The thing about his Rekkas is that he can actually frame trap with them (as you don’t know if he’ll go into the third Rekka or not until it’s probably too late to react); Rolento’s also tend to like going back into standing pokes out of the first Rekka. In addition, doing an EX Giant Swing after the 2nd Rekka beats him trying to tag cancel the third. Haven’t tested it too much, but it does work against general frametraps you want to escape as well
Rolento’s Patriot Circle has advantage on block and you can’t punish him unless he goes into two of them that are blocked, OR you have to anticipate him doing them naked. The smart Rolento will always fish with jabs or go from standing jabs into his crouching forward as well as stopping if the first Patriot is blocked. Only terrible players are going to do three of them on block.
Rolento’s Patriot Circle’s are -1 on block, his jab is a 4 frame start up, and king’s cr. jab is a 3 framer or so (the guide says 2 different things ;- So if you hit a jab after he does his rekka, and he does too, you’ll win.
Hmmm I dunno I have had no problems thus far punishing the second rekka, just wait till I feel I know they won’t go for the frame trap, and if they due, the frame trap happens within a period of time where I tend to still be blocking. I would still rather save the bar, and go for the possibility of more damage and better positioning, but at this point we are discussing personnel choices in gameplay as opposed to set in stone strategy
Here is my theory of how the developers design King to be played.
As fare as offense goes, remove the Giant Swing from your mind, I would use this purely as a move to punish unsafe attacks that are too far away for your normals. Your longest range poke is you f.st.lk, you can use this to test spacing, certain jumpins from this range can be punished by King’s knee, anything else can be punished by his leg screw. Jumpins can also be dodged by the Jaguar Step, you can then scope out how they are following up their jumpins and punish accordingly next time they make that mistake. Jaguar step is most definitely NOT the way to get in, this can be better accomplished by dash canceling his Elbow Slam(don’t know the exact names of all the moves.) off of certain pokes. Still, you can not abuse this, as it is not completely safe. An example would be cr.mk qcb.p dash cancel forward. Once you have accomplished getting in, King has many tools. His Rolling Elbow Rush can be used to trick your opponent into standing. Your whole game with King is to force your opponent to stay standing. An example of using these tools is to continue your pressure after the dash with a nuetral jumping fierce, then start your Elbow Rush, if you get a hit with it, jab and get your combo. If they continue to block, continue to throw the Rush, you want to get into your opponents mind and make them think that you are going to punish every crouch they do. If they start to block the Rush, then that is where your the Rush really comes in handy.The Rush and the cl.st.lp look exactly the same so you can trick your opponent into thinking you are going to throw the overhead by throwing f.mp cl.st.lp and when they stand throw cr.lk and get your combo. If they start to stand you get huge combos, if they start to crouch, blow them up with your SW and Rush. Of course there is much more you can do with King’s many mixup options, but this is just an example of how to get in, and what spacing to keep. Of course to each their own, but this is just my theory on how the Developers meant for King to be played. I based this theory off of King’s cl.st.lp’s resemblance to his rolling elbow rush and its ability to combo. I also based this theory on his fast dash cancel speed from is qcb.p, a tool that not too many characters have.
I’ll have to try your Elbow Rush/LP mixup; I love the idea.
On CADC; your only real option there is to backdash, as you’re better off framewise by doing a :lk: Konvict if you wish to stay in off any cancelable normal. Could probably also cancel into an EX and try and bait something out. Other thing there is that if you backdash and end up evading something with a large recovery, just Disgraceful Kick for a free jump in combo.
Anyone got the frame data on how much of a game is between the second and third hit of Rolling Elbow Rush? Either something special happens or the guide is wrong, as it gives 16 frames of recovery for the 2nd hit and 12 frames of startup for the third with the second hit being neutral on block. As a chain, this should combo, which means something is off. Trying to figure out what can interrupt it
Yeah the CADC is something that you can use to catch your opponent off guard, you won’t have frame advantage but the forward dash can give you an opportunity to grab an unwary opponent or bait out something if your opponent tries to punish on reaction. It actually works well after a blocked EX Konvict kick, opening the opponent up to many more options than if done raw. Don’t quote me, but I am pretty sure that the third hit of Elbow Rush is uninterruptable becuz it does not combo off of counter hit. If it was interruptable, it would make it useless becuz the opponent wouldnt have to worry about the overhead in any situation. Also it is pretty punishable on block if your opponent is ready for it. I used it on the CPU on hardest in order to test if it is punishable and I was able to use all three hits repeatedly without it being interrupted by Ryu with full meter. Hell, I was even able to block after he stood up and blocked the overhead.
Being uninteruptable while not being a combo on hit would mean that either it has more blockstun than hitstun (or different recovery from the 2nd hit on block and hit) or a special property of uninteruptability. I just want to know the frames, as there are 1 and 2 frame moves in the game, and I don’t want to risk throwing it out against a Ken/Gief/Julia who is mashing super, or a counter character.
Tbh I have no idea, but you could either test it, or be sure to notice when those characters and others with similar punishing abilities have super and GTFO of there after the first two hits or block.
One of the things i’ve been playing around with is using the QCB+P after the knee loop in the corner to take them out of the corner, it basically means if they roll they go back into the corner but if they don’t roll you get a free crossup.
If you do a RJB, don’t you give them the choice of cross up if they roll or stay in the corner? Hell, rolling into moves makes crossups even more ambiguous, and you get more damage.
I couldn’t make the jump attack you get after the RJB safe or even land deep enough to be a solid block string on reaction to the roll. I just think its worth valuing safe pressure and the ability to keep them in the corner consistently.
So if you hit a jab after he does his rekka, and he does too, you’ll win.