"When I Spin, I Spin for the Children" - The King Mixup Thread

The King Mix Up Thread

Introduction

Let’s face it. One of the main reasons people use king are because of the ability tag him in off a
magic series and great fantastic meterless damage off knee loops. King is really strong in this aspect, however he also has lot of negatives.

A) His anti-air options are not the greatest. Sure, he has a few decent anti air tools, but nothing stellar.

B) Compared to a lot of other characters, he has poor footsie. This means once they opposition has time to regain their spacing, King has problems creating damage oppurtunities.

C) His mobility is TERRIBLE. He moves very slow, making him extremely susceptible to strong zoning game. People like Sim ruin King’s day. Jag Step helps a bit, but since its vulnerable on startup and on recovery frames, it can be easily baited and punished.

I feel strongly that your goal with King is this:
have him anchor, get him in via magic series tag or switch cancel, and then knee loop into knockdown with anti-air grab, do a mix up and then get him out before your opponent can reset the situation and put King in a terrible position.

For these reasons, its important to have a good understanding of King’s (so far) excellent mix up game. Through this thread, we can devise mixups and patterns that allow King to get in, do some great damage, create mixup based off the knockdown on his anti air grab, and then get him out.

There will be, of course, exceptions and variations to this strategy based on you and your opponent’s life.

Mixup Game

Even though its very early in this game’s life, I am currently in love with this characters mix up game. King can put people into situations where he can force them into mixups that are not just one layer deep.

The ideal situation currently to start your mixup game is this:
Off of a tag from your point character, you do your basic knee loops into your anti air grab.
From this point, you have your opponent knocked down and you can start really messing their heads.

In most cases, I am finding a ton of success surrounding the mixup game around King’s Low Grab, the Shining Wizard, particularly the EX version. His Jag step, shoulder charge, and forward medium punch can also be extremely useful.

General Mixups

First off, lets look at shining wizard, the low grab.

Shining Wizard Mixup

This. This is my favourite thing in this game right now.
Here is my current mixup surrounding this move, which I posted before in the GD thread:

Off of the ideal tag combo, after the anti air grab, try for a cross up or fake cross up. They have to guess which way to block (I actually really like king’s jumping forward), if you hit, confirm into magic series combo, go for a jumping roundhouse and switch cancel into your point.

Between your two knee loops you have just landed (one from tagging King in, one for this setup), you have done a ton of damage and King has done his job.

If they do block the cross up, its pretty much a general assumption that your opponent is going to block low, as you naturally would against everyone else. Once you land from the blocks cross up, EX shining wizard them.

Once they start catching onto this, they might start blocking high in anticipation. This is EXACTLY what you want them to do.

DO NOT GO FOR GIANT SWING IF THEY START BLOCKING HIGH. Yes, this grab grabs high, its WAY better to go for a low normal into magic xx ex kicks into loop (and then of course, ending with tagging king out). Giant swing is only really that great for whiff punish and certain footsie situations do to EX’s bonkers range. You get more damage, spend less meter (potentially), and are WAY safer going for low normals.

If you land the shining wizard, congratulations you get another opportunity to mix them up.

This mix up is awesome. Its two 50/50s in one, and so far is doing wonders for me.
Don’t worry too much about missing SW. if you pay attention, you should be able to see the frames of animation of your opponent blocking, and this will be perfect indication on what to go for. For people with poor reversal options, it destroys them, and once safe jumps are figured out it will be even stronger.

You can of course use SW in other places, like after block strings and stuff, but its risky. In my eyes, this is the best set up. for it.

Patent pending.

Jaguar Step Mixups

There is something that fills my heart with joy when I watch a giant man with a leopard head prance all of life’s problems goodbye.

This is a pretty decent utility move. It has a ton of invciibilty, but unfortunately not on startup or recovery. It leads into a mid hitting follow up, and over head, and low hitting follow up. Pretty sure all three are unsafe on block. At certain ranges, this move is down right useless. However in some situations and some match ups, it can be a very useful tool.

A mix up I have been drying to develop is doing it on some one’s wakeup. Try conditioning your opponent to believe that on their wakeup, you are going to go for pressure. in the case of characters like ryu, ken, and sagat, there is a good chance they will eventually go for a dp.

This is where this move comes in handy. If you time it right on their wakeup, it will make DPs whiff. Completely. Its beautiful. I need to test this ore, but I feel like there is a certain spacing and timing so that it will pretty much go through everything, save for long moves with incredibly long active frames (Zangief’s lariat) or if they are mashing on fast normals. But that’s they great part of this move. Using it practically on your opponents wakeup once or twice will naturally make them want to try these tactics. And we all know how mashing normals on wakeup can turn out for you opponent. Use it to your advantage.

I am not going to go too far into detail about the high low mixup game with the follow ups. I think the application is pretty obvious. Pretty sure they are not safe on block though, so a good set up for them is to go either high or low, switch cancel on block, and then proceed to mixup with another high/low or pseudo unblockable with your point.

So in short, this move is less dangerous of a mix up then to SW one as far as damage and practicality is concerned, but its great for getting in your opponents head to condition them to do incredibly unsafe things on their wakeup. It should be used sparingly, but the beauty of it it only really ever needs to be used once in match for its effect to be felt. It works especially well on grapplers other then grief, since it goes throw throws as well. Gief can just lariat on his wake up to pretty much fully nullify this mix up.

Forward + Strong Mix Ups

So this one is pretty basic, but might as well touch point on it. forward strong is a unique normal of King’s where he chains two elbows, and then follows up with an over head. However, you don’t HAVE to go to the overhead. The first two hits of the chain are safe on block and have decent frame advantage. Therefore, on block you can decide whether to follow up with the over head or go low with a different normal to open them up.

Pretty basic stuff, but its worth mentioning that this one works well in conjuncture with Jag Step. Forward Strong has a very short reaching hit box, so you have to be very close to your opponent. You can close that space with Jag step. Or, if you have been using the Jag Step mixups on people’s wakeup that I mentioned above, and it was successful, a smart player is going to be wary to press button on wakeup knowing you can frolic right through whatever he pushes, and will probably wake up blocking. When they do, that’s when to use this move. Keeps your pressure going and could lead to a combo to get King out.

This is definitely a mixup I still need to do a lot of testing with, like if they can reversal DP if you forward strong is unlinkable into a low normal.

RESERVED FOR CHARACTER SPECIFIC MIX

RESERVED, JUST IN CASE

So that’s pretty much it for now. The Game is still super young, so I am sure there is still tons of technology to be discovered with things like his counters, shoulder charge, and maybe even Giant swing.

I encourage people to leave their mixups down below so that we can get more strategies rolling, and I will do my best to update this post as it goes. If anyone sees any glaring holes with what I had posted, let me know. Remember this:

Do these mixups after a tag combo with King, but for the love god do your best to end it with him tagging back into the point character.

Let’s get this rolling!

One thing I’ve noted: Your mixup strike options are very unsafe. This is your 3rd Rolling Elbow, JS Overhead, JS Sweep. Tag cancel these. I think it makes them safe, and if they hit it’s a free combo for your partner. However, you have to realize that all these can be interrupted quite easily; 14 frame window on the JS moves where you are vulnerable. I’m trying to figure out from the frame data how vulnerable you are on the Overhead Elbow though; the 2nd hit is +3 on hit, neutral on block, 16 frames of recovery, overhead has a startup of 12. I think it’s a chain so there’s less recovery into the overhead but I don’t know.

Against anyone who isn’t Julia or Zangief (due to their supers) you can end any failed mixup attempt that you linked on either a CADC or just take a -2 with a LK Konvict. With meter you can end off links or chains with an EX Konvict for +3 OR go into an EX throw (cr:hp: is -9 on block and recovers in 25, so if you cancel into an EX Shining Wizard, your throw comes out at frame frame 19 when they recover at frame 16 so if they pressed a button that wasn’t a 4 frame command throw while crouching you get them; same applies for an EX Giant Swing. Doesn’t work with EX Running Jaguar Bomb though. You can cancel cl:mk: or cr:mk: into an EX RJB though, but it will only work if they do a move that is airborne on the first frame AND not invincible, so not very useful).

Basically, do a block string chain, end on a cr:hp: and you get a 50/50 throw mixup if you think they’ll try and mash a normal or a non-throw invincible ground based reversal. Don’t do it on Marduk or Julia/Zangief with 2 bars as they can punish.

Thanks! Yeah as I mentioned, wasn’t very sure on the frame data till later today when I noticed the thread, I will update with this info in the near future. Not really using the follow ups too much yet, pretty much just to tag cancel.

Also I will be cleaning up the initial posts later so they are easier to read/navigate, I just wanted to get the info out of my head while I had the motivation

Hopefully this adds to the thread (I’m practically new to SRK) but King can corpse hop over certain characters with a close standing knee lift. After the knee lift strings I would end with a jumping HK, corpse hop upon landing, and go into crouching LK or some kind of mixup on the opponent’s wake up. Again the corpse hop doesn’t seem to work on characters with a “kip up” wakeup animation (Julia for instance). Not sure how practical that would be in the long run but just wanted to add my 2 cents…

Not so much a mix up option, but keep in mind that Knee is airborne from frame 1, so for pressure game on gief, if you do it meaty so that it goes active right away you may beat out every one of his wake up options, including lariat, gotta test this out when I get home tomorrow.

EDIT: I haven’t seen anyone else say this yet either, but King’s overhead string? You can link off the overhead itself, the third hit, into cr lp or cr mp. If they’re unaware of this, pressure them with that, then link into EX Konvict Kick or even tag combo.

This would be great, can’t wait to test it.

I am going to test a few o/s ideas i have today as well.

Beats out 360 and kkk lariat. PPP lariat beats it out.

That’s awesome since most giefs will kick lariat on wake up because it’s a safer option against most characters.

Hey animal lovers :wink:

Question on the hop kick after tag in:
I have real problems connecting it after tagging King in. Any ideas/tipps how to get the timing down?

I was actually having issues myself with some of the magic series tag in combos. Often it seems like the opponent is too low for your first knee to actually hit them. Right now it seems like it’s 20% - 30% “random” on where they end up before King can activate this move. As far as cancelling him in, you should be able to hit it 100% from that. It’s even worse if you tag in with them in the corner. I’ve had better luck just doing a crouching fierce into his QCB :p: elbow/throw, and it does very nice damage with just those two hits.

I’ve also noticed that after a tag in, you can “juggle” them four times, but you can only hit them with three knees. I’ve never been able to hit with a fourth off of a tag, but you can if you do it as part of a King combo that was not based off of a launched character.

And just for posterity, “Shining Wizard” is called Tomahawk in game for those who don’t know the original names of the Tekken moves. Why the EX version of this though? It only does 10 more damage than the non EX, and it seems about the same speed. I’m assuming it’s becuase of some kind of invulnerability frames, but it seems like it’s hard enough to hit the non EX version anyway.

Yeah, I’ve been using cr. MP xx QCB+P as well so far.
Anyone else ideas on the hop kick timing? Exactly when he enters the screen? When I try to do it when he is in front of the falling opponent, it’s always too late…

Which is the AA you use most? I found the f+PPP quite useful so far.

I think pretty much anytime you could do a :qcb: :hp: you could do a :dp: :hp: for more damage, especially on the tag combo.

As for AA, I tend to go for the anti-air counter (f:p::p:) or predict it and Jaguar Step. Knees beat empty jumps as well.

Against ambiguous crossup jump ins, when you try and do a reversal counter, I take it you just need to press the direction they are 8 frames before you get up; no need to also guess if they cross up, as you might not autocorrect but the counter will still go off?

Great finding! Not many Tekken have these options.

Also, what are you using as ‘get off me’ move or what are you generally doing under pressure? What has most invinc frames? Still waiting for Brady guide…

This bloody hop kick is driving me crazy. Tried it about 1000 times. Hardly get it. How is Bobino able to pull it off so consistent?

The Upknee really just takes a rhythm to do; with the exception of some tag cancels, the tempo is the exact same for all the Upknees. I tend to just do them as soon as King recovers from the previous one; hold uf and just tap in the rhythm.

All EX Throws are strike invincible during startup. His Super, and Cross Art are invincible during startup . EX RASC is invincible after 3 frames of startup. Jaguar Step is invincible after 6 frames of startup. None are really that good of an idea, but I would try mixing up EX Shining Wizard and his anti-ground counter if you think they’ll stay on the dirt. I think due to how the reversal window works, you can pretty much always get an anti-air counter out, which means there is no such thing as a safejump against King.

It’s not the rhythm. It’s hitting the FIRST knee after the tag in.

Totally spacing dependent. Pretty much anywhere past midscreen and you need to do the :hp: xx :dp::hp: or cr:lp: uf:mk: :hp: :dp::hp: combo instead.