You forgot my quick write up of the bird on the 1st page too.
It’s clear none of you want me playing fighting games anymore.
I didn’t forget it, I was just snubbing you!!!
What the hell. Ryu osag is not 3-7
-trolls suck-
Coth wait Coth. I don’t really like arguing matchup numbers for any game, but I want to know: what do you think it is? Honest question. You are obviously not pleased with 7-3, haha. Do you feel it’s a 6-4? Or an 8-2? A 5-5?? 10-0???
I’m going to go straight to Nohoho’s super-awesome super-chart (which I’m sure you’ve seen before) for my UNNNNBEATABLE TRUMP CARD, the collectionofopinionsfromanumberoftopAmericanplayers.
(O.Sagat wins on left, N.Ryu wins on right, for anyone who is not familiar with ST!)
What N.Ryu mains think:
[LIST]
[]7-3
[]7-3
[]6-4
[]7-3
[/LIST]
What O.Sagat mains think:
[LIST]
[]7-3
[]6-4
[*]9-1
[/LIST]
Like many of ST’s matchups, there’s quite a spread of opinions here! The only clear consensus is that Sagat holds the advantage (which of course we know is pretty clear to anyone who has a firm understanding of how the game works). Beyond this, there’s really actually the full range of variety to be seen. Keep in mind that these are all from players who are generally respected for their results and/or ability and/or knowledge in this game.
And really, I didn’t want to do this to you, but 7-3 is notably the most frequent response–the majority response, in fact–and if you take an average of all of them, it actually does come out to a perfect 7-3. 7-3 exactly.
Matchups can be so subjective, especially in a game like ST*, so I think just about any “number” opinion you have here is valid (nevermind the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and blah blah and peace on earth, etc., etc.). I am curious, though, about how you feel so strongly that 7-3 is incorrect.
- I’ll bet everyone says this about their favourite game :shy:
edit: okay i went back and read your other posts and it sounds like you were rooting for 6-4
JWong’s matchup ratings on that thing are absolutely nuts and should pretty much just be disregarded.
Well first not everyone says 7 - 3 with the same meaning.
Secondly, except for america, where is osag’s dominance. Regardless of bans, there are japanese players who use him yet where are they in the grand scheme of things?
When I say 7-3, I feel we are getting into unwinnable territory.
So how is 7-3 being defined here.
In reference, I would say ken v osag is 3 - 7
-trolls suck-
What I think is, either ban the character or don’t. The soft ban thing is stupid.
7 - 3 means for each match you take, if you are good, O.Sagat takes more than twice. I am not aware of any other understanding, in fact. Unwinnable is Cammy vs O.Sagat. That’s probably 10-0 or 9.5-0.5.
As for Ryu vs O.Sagat, I could make a sort of long table with the many tools O.Sagat has that Ryu either does not or does worse. Projectile speed, projectile recovery, uppercut damage, sweep range and ability to punish extended limbs with neutral kicks are enough to justify O.Sagat’s advantage.
But I never said osag doesn’t have advantage. I don’t feel that he beats ryu that bad. If that is the case, then nken v osag is unwinnable.
BTW, osag v nsim is rated as worst matchup by japanese. Its like 1-9 or something.
-trolls suck-
What the fuck kind of mental gymnastics is this. 7-3 is an objective statistic. It always means one guy wins 7 for each 3 the other guy wins. 7-3 can’t be different to you than it is to someone else…
That’s a literal interpretation, but how many human osags do you know can beat ryus 70% of the time per 10 matches?
Also, no I don’t think osag beats ryu 7 out of 10 times. More like 6.
And I still believe this nonsense is stupid. This how computers do it. But human players don’t fall into these perfect values.
-trolls suck-
That’s because most O.Sagats you see online, nowadays, play bad. There is a reason why Daigo lost to O.Sagat almost everytime when it was against a good western player, and had to use Boxer instead.
As for Ken, the main difference between him and Ryu is his hadouken has more start-up and he has no version that knocks down up close. He loses, for sure, probably 2-8. He does not have short Tatsu, but he has the juice kick, which is not a reliable menace to O.Sagat, anyway. Up close, his Jab SRK has better range and does much more damage, and Ken also has the knee bash, so he has a chance of delivering damage.
The Japanese rate N.Sagat v Dhalsim 1-9 (source). No way O.Sagat vs Dhalsim is the same. Gian was even sort of happy O.Sagat players used other characters against Dhalsim (ain’t got the link, Ganelon posted it at the ST section).
As for “soft ban”, the expression, it comes from zass.
So does no one read? I was saying nsag v nsim is worst matchup, you said cammy osag was.
So daigo switched to boxer to deal with osag. Still, where is osag in japan? Why aren’t they using him and dominating?
-trolls suck-
You have written O.Sagat vs Dhalsim.
They are not dominating because not everyone plays shotos. O.Sagat only loses to other top tier characters. Thus, the more O.Sagats appear, the more other top tiers do, to deal with him.
I am done here, everyone now knows what soft bans mean and what the term originally means. Complaining about match-ups does not change the match-ups, I just do not agree when someone says they are not relevant.
I’m not saying matchups are irrelevant, but assigning theoretical numbers to them are pointless as far as I’m concerned. Even in high level play those numbers simply aren’t true.
-trolls suck-
the f…
no. it’s a 10 scale system. how is 2 points away from even and 3 away from truly unwinnable “getting into unwinnable territory.”
I’m aware that people use the scale differently. I’m also aware that a lot of people who use it differently are retards. sf4 players rating EVERYTHING 6-4 come to mind.
Just some advice for other people please play a game and understand it before posting about it otherwise you’ll endup looking like a dumbass scrub like the guy I quoted.
I asked Tokido at evo how jap players feel about o.sagat he said very few players don’t think he should be allowed in tourney’s.
I just don’t like applying the numbers in general. Mainly cause they can’t take every possible thing into account. Id rather talk about a matchup strategy wise and forget about numbers.
They guy saying osag was banned? Where did he even get that idea?
-trolls suck-
Hey where is this army of O.SAG players since SBO is right around the corner?