Gief is a slow type char and dont think should get a 3f jab…instead ask combo for exgh to be +2 on hit. given that exgh knocksdown on counter hit, so he CANT do any loops. Whoever gets a chance talk to combo to see if we get something good going. Also ask to revert s.lk nerf.
the s.lk nerf is so big. If it is as far as ive heard, and Far in this type of situation is pixels 
We need to make sure they listen, they cant remove our best footsie tool. Gief is just an OK char, let him be.
I would just love for Combofiend to sit down and play Gief against some good players. Make him play a good Sagat, good Ryu, Guile, Akuma, Oni, Juri, ect. Then see how he feels about all the changes. I honestly feel that he knows nothing about the character at all. Not too mention the rest of the Capcom team in charge of the changes. I think he sees a player like Snake Eyez body people and automatically think that Gief is op.
I can see clearly now, the rain has gone.
I can see all obstacles in my way…
Can anyone see the dynamic relationship between the standing lk nerf, the standing mk buff, infinite o/s GH, and close lk being cancellable?
I really need someone to show me how to do the devastating: cr.lp, cr.lp, st.mp, st.lk xx EXGH. Looks like I’ll never get the chance. 
far standing LK was godly, and now it bleeds like like a mere mortal.
Not sure if you agree with me, or think that the nerf is justified! :3
Hey Veggey, good to see your praying on Capcom Utility also! I’m hoping for a cancellable cr.mp
Yeah, I can’t predict it with much confidence. The nerf to the far lk range is a definite negative - that affects option selects, whiff punishing, the mp-lk link, double and triple lk combos, spd and jump resets.
But taking a more worldly view, with the dynamic balance of far lk, close lk, mk, regular GH, LP SPD as a whole - my vote goes to USF Zangief.
Here is my reasons:
- Far MK more safer, useable, faster? - this is a semi-replacement for the far lk nerf
- infinite o/s GH to GET IN
- GH to whiff punish pokes and GET IN
- cancellable close lk - might assist in Lariat combos
At least on paper, stat wise, I see him as better relative to the cast, especially Sagat, Akuma, Seth. Delayed wakeup is an unfortunate nerf that affects everyone, especially those with a cross-up.
Fortunately, you can play matches where you never get a cross-up attempt, footsies, and keeping them standing with EXGH +1. So DWU is not as crippling to Zangief, as ibuki.
But if you go for the cross-up and you don’t get it, you will be in a better spot than post SPD-LPGH. Delayed wakeup will mark the end of empty jump command throws - they have 29 frames to practically punish you for free *Pre-Delay. But the one saving grace with the mechanism, is they have to commit to it. This leaves Zangief with the power to react.
Have to start formulating strategies against delayed wakeup. WELCOME TO A BRAVE NEW WORLD.
I played Ultra all weekend. I think Zangief is fine. There are some things that he can’t punish anymore with LP SPD, which is unfortunate, but I still didn’t notice it much. st/cr.LP, LK xx LP GH is good. As has been mentioned, the best option after is to just tech the throw since you can’t really do anything at -2. If you want the +1, just use EX.
I found that I had meter a lot more often, and even though I never landed it (red focus is weird on pad, at least with my config), I was often in a position to win with either a buffered normal or combo into LPGH/EXGH xx EX RFA xx U1. This makes his comeback potential much more solid and consistent, and the fact that you can now lose as much or more life for jumping away than standing there and taking the SPD makes Gief scary in a way that’s similar to Seth.
Combofiend confirmed that cr.LK is a 2 frame link again, so it’s the same as in vanilla. I plink on pad with LP,LK and was consistently hitting cr.LK (x4) xx EXGH. This is one of Gief’s best buffs IMO. 2 reasons. LP GH is faster so when you do SPD, LP GH you have much more time to get the timing of meaty cr.LK correct and punish jump/backdash with a (easier) cr.LK combo. Also, EX GH leaves you MUCH closer to the opponent, so you can get FP SPD or you’re close enough to hit confirm 2 cr.LK’s and then finish with a combo into LPGH/EXGH.
Funny story. I didn’t ask about cr.MP being cancellable because, honestly, I thought it would sound like a weird request that Combo wouldn’t listen to. But I did ask about the hitbox on Gief’s focus and he initially sorta blew me off. So then he hopped on the setup and told me he was gonna play Gief and demo some of the new stuff. His opponent was my friend Four Wude, an Akuma player. The round started and guess what was the VERY FIRST THING to happen? Combo tries to punish Akuma’s sweep with focus at point blank range, it whiffs and he loses 30%. The shock on his face was priceless. After, he acknowledged it as a problem. Dunno if they’re gonna change it (I seriously doubt it) but he at least knows about it for sure.
I should have been taking notes and testing more stuff, but honestly I was having too much fun just playing. Still, if you wanna know anything let me know and I’ll try to answer as best I can.
So just to be sure, after a lp.gh our only option is tech or maybe backdash? So against other grapplers we can’t even land lp gh’s since they can punish with ultras or supers? Or for example if Chun has a super we can’t even use lp.gh’s either?
You can’t, but at least we have our comboable EX GH back, makes it much more workable.
The best options are tech or SPD. You can backdash but I’m sure the opponent can option select that, and Combo said that he’s too far away to SPD punish a throw whiff. And yea, no LPGH against anyone with a 2f move. But like Macho said, we still have EXGH combo so it’s not that bad. And he can use that extra meter to FADC LPGH and avoid the punish.
I been reading about the gief nerfs and i was worried, but i had the opportunity of trying gief ultra version this weekend. in my opinion the changes are ok… i was afraid to use std. mp but after some tries i got the hang of it. lp. gh its crazy good. i wish i can give a better analysis to it but i’m new to the street fighter lingo and frames knowledge. just to say, i had fun and i win once or twice(take in consideration that until this weekend i’ve only played online).
in another note. is the norm of every tournament to use only the 360 version for street fighter?
Most tournaments, yeah. PS3 Street Fighter IV runs on 58 frames a second IIRC while Xbox runs on 60 which makes it closer to arcade perfect.
Define best. The safest option is definitely to crouch block. But you will find that you have to get creative and maximize your opportunities. Hiting with LPGH will turn you into Yomigief, as you play that game show called - Wheel of Fortune. Without Ultra 1, I see jump cancel HP SPD will counter their throws, KKK Lariat will counter 3-4 frame low into combo, PPP Lariat to counter non-low attacks. In that spot, EXGH will be 99% useless I’m guessing.
Combo doesn’t play Zangief. But I’m sure, he meant, there’s not enough time to punish the throw whiff. 20 frame throw whiff vs 26 frame back dash started 2 frames late. Basically they can jump to avoid the LP SPD after the back dash. In fact they will be 8 frames to do whatever they please, before your SPD goes out.
Using the extra meter to FADC the LPGH against 2 frame move, would strictly be an opponent dependent play - based on a guess of their tendency. Hopefully to close out or turn the tables in a match. You should be able to punish regular throw whiffs in that spot. But it won’t be something you will do often, as going into EXGH is preferable for 1 Bar with advantage.
Fair enough. That guy has never played a Zangief in his life.
cancellable cr.mp would make Zangief’s jump in punishes, anti-airs, pressure strings highly dangerous and would bring back his cross-up game. FA hitting low is a must for Red FA and essential to counter Sagat’s low tiger.
- Is cr.lk 3 frame startup or more likely +5 on hit?
- Can you still land far MP-st.lk link?
- How was the far MK? Is it faster total frames wise?
- How much faster is the LPGH again?
Thanks Chief and Co.
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Startup was the same. They added more advantage, so it’s +5 now.
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Didn’t try it.
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Startup is the same. Recovery is really fast now. It’s definitely a viable poke, especially as a whiff punish
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I don’t know the frame data for it, but it’s really fast. After an SPD xx LPGH, you have enough adv to time a meaty cr.LK correctly. It’s not fast enough to whiff into a grab though. I got punished almost every time I tried. And, of course, it’s utility in cancelling out FBs is pretty good. Also, I don’t think there’s much yomi after LPGH. The opponent is going to throw, and that beats everything except SPD. So I think the main options will be tech and SPD. Sure you can do other stuff once you download the opponent, but until then, I’d stick with those.
did you check the length on s.lk? and i mean really check, not just feel it.
If the LP Green Hand change (-3 on hit now) is real and final…fuck this shit.
Where did you see that?
There’s a PDF on the rebalance request thread, apparently it’s the final batch of changes (it looks like it, I’m trying to read it).
There’s no mention of -2 anywhere, the only thing -5 on his changelog got changed to -3, it must be the LP GH.
Lp green hand: startup 8 frames [11] -3 on hit [-5] and -8 on block [-7]
Mp green hand: startup 11 frames [13] -6 on block [-8]
Hp green hand: startup 14 frames [16] -6 on hit [-7] -7 on block [-9]
Edit: No buffs for the cr.lk. The other changes are apparently pretty much the same of the previous changelog