WHATAMIFIGHTINGFOOOOOOOOO!: the MvC3 Zero Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
861

So desk found a glitch with Zero doing a snapback in Sougenmu (Shadow mode).

[media=youtube]eK3YseTHEBQ[/media]

The glitch happens if you snapback your opponent (with your shadow) when their is assist is out in Sougenmu. You basically freeze your opponents and they can’t do anything.

I thought about why this never happened to me. Then I realized that I never use meter in Sougenmu. Now I’m wondering if I should do this “accidently” against my friends, lol.

EDIT: On a serious note, I can see this happening on accident if you really want to snap someone in (Phoenix for example). I’m pretty sure the ruling is going to be that this would be banned, but I have a feeling this may be hard to remember in the heat of a match. Especially if Phoenix is close to 5 meters and or has no health (or lots of red health).

862

This seems rather difficult to do on accident, as it requires strictly the shadow to hit and not you (from what I can tell). Speaking of Sougenmu however, what are people’s opinion on it? It seems to cause confusion, which is fun, but the damage output of it is actually quite terrible outside of corner relaunch loops–and even then, the oddities of the shadow often screw up combo’s more than they help by frequently knocking people out of launches and rapidly inducing hit stun decay…

I watched Evil Rahsaan on the Battlefield Arcadia stream almost exclusively use Sougenmu and zone with it, but he applied almost no damage with it and wasted pretty much the entirety of his meter on not really accomplishing anything–most of it was just level 3 charge and zero fireball spam / buster shots from full screen, he immediately reactivated it upon it ending, even from full screen, and I genuinely couldn’t wrap my head around why he would do such a thing.

I enjoy Sougenmu over his other supers from a fun standpoint, but I really can’t gauge how useful it is. I often employ it during a doom rock assist to really fill the screen with crap (which I then either do a short command dash behind them, hard command dash to land on top of them (which is nifty with the shadow if you do it right since you need to block high for the shadow’s jump C, that may actually open up unblockables…) or a medium lightning dash to mix up…

I’ll have to keep playing with it, I never thought about trying to simultaneously land a low and overhead attack via a jump in with the shadow.

863

If you guys havent seen jwong play zero i suggest you take a look. He used zero/felicia/doom w/ beam assist during winter brawl money matches and he seemed to have lvled up that team during the recent machina stream yesterday. Although i believe marn has a better zero in terms of combos and mixups, jwong uses him in a safer style. Wong uses dooms beam assist to cover zeros M command dash at perfect distance for an ambiguous crossup w/ non buster combos and his slash projectile for zoning.

During the stream he went up against clockwork, clakeyd, and floe and he didnt lose a single match to them w/ his zero team.

864

Both Marn and JWong are really good players obviously so their Zeros do pretty well, but they both do awful easy-mode combos with him so I can’t call their Zeros good (Marn did some buster combos in TvC though but nothing fancy, and I haven’t seen him play in a while so he might have levelled up his Zero since then). They’re just great players playing a good character to a small fraction of that character’s potential. It’s pretty frustrating actually because those videos are the kinds that most people will watch and get their impressions of Zero from. I wonder how many people actually know Zero is capable of 700-800k on one meter midscreen with no XF and builds more than 2 meter in a single combo…

865

This soo much.

866

Regardless theyre able to play him successfully against clockwork, clakeyd, floe and ryry, more so wong than marn. Those are really good players also.

Game is still young so everything isnt figured out yet, look at mvc2 people still finding out things in that game

867

I realize people are still finding out new things, but we’re talking about stuff that has already been discovered for them (weeks ago now in fact) and no one (or very few people) are using any of it. I meant no disrespect to Clakey, Cl0ck, or Floe either (Cl0ck is one of my favorite players actually), and losing to someone as great as JWong even if he’s not playing the character to its full potential is nothing to be ashamed of.

I guess I’m just saying I’d like someone really good to actually learn to use Zero properly and style on everyone :D.

I’d do it but I’m not very good…someday maybe. My last semester of college is chaining me down so hard, but when I’m done I intend to put in as much effort as I need to to be a top player, and then I’m going to put more effort in and be the best player ^^.

868

Its possible jwong doesnt even know some of the advance things w/ zero he didnt even know some wolvie stuff and asked for a video of it. I think it was his beserker charge into barrage loop, but the game is almost a month old so its going to be a bit for even top players to gain all the info on every toon.

Another good example is richard ngyuen’s dante. Hes prob the first to use crazy dante bold cancel combos in a tourny thus exposing it to more people and pretty sure someone else will find other crazy things in the future.

869

I find it hard to imagine something like that being difficult.

Steps:

  1. “I play character X”
  2. “I should read up on character X”
  3. “Oh look there’s a combo thread with videos”
  4. Practice combos

But maybe I’m spoiled because of how much time I get while bored in class to look up information and videos. I get no social life this semester and have very little time to practice :frowning: … so I try to make up for it by exposing myself to as much information and as many videos as possible :slight_smile:

870

Yeah, but again that team isnt his main team, atleast not now. His 2 teams hes used in actual tourny play are wolv/storm/akuma and she-hulk/dog/tron so like i said its possible he know it.

Its not hard, but again combofiend prior to last weeks wnf only played 4 other people before entering but ended up still winning. Ultradavid and jchen pointed things put to him that he didnt know after a match that was caught on stream. I mean yeah they couldve reseached but for whatever reason they havent, laziness, work, gf, w/e so its entirely possible.

I mean they had 2 machina guys on stream yesterday playing and one of them was playing tron. Clakey noticed something he did, mind you the player had no idea what he was doing, and said he just found something out that hes going to steal. What it was im not sure, but just shows things are being found out everyday.

Eventually theyll be exposed to capabilities of every toon then youll see if anyone takes on zero what hes capable of and what theyre all capable of. Or you can show people what hes capable of.

871

Tournament play is often times a little different than playing online or in training mode. I agree with you that Zero BnB’s should be more commonly used, but sometimes those combo’s are somewhat risky to perform under tournament conditions–and some combo’s only add a little bit of damage compared to the easier alternative.

I have however seen Marn tapping a little more into Zero with level 3 buster combo’s and whatnot.

872

Which stream are you talking about? There a link?

873

I’ve used these combos in tourney actually. I may live in the middle of nowhere but I’m no stranger to travelling nor to playing in tourneys. Problem is that I’m still pretty bad at the game in general so landing that first hit to start the combo rarely happened, but I didn’t really have any trouble completing the combo.

MachinimaRespawn stream from last night. They streamed on youtube so it’s probably archived somewhere.

874

I’ve been doing some research on hit stun decay and I figured I’d share the notes I’ve got so far. It’s not very organized yet, but it’s got some useful data. If a number has a ? next to it, the opponent (Sentinel in this case) fell off the screen and I guessed based on how many frames until the style descriptor (“Cool”, “Galactic”, etc.) showed up. If I list something as j. Raikousen, as opposed to just Raikousen, I mean that I hit the opponent while they were jumping. All final hits were to an airborne target.

Base hit stun

[details=Spoiler]j. l: 7 hit pause, 12 hit stun
j. m: 9 hit pause, 19 hit stun
j. h: 10 hit pause, hit stun long enough to reach the ground[/details]

TAC combos

[details=Spoiler]Dante launch, l, down TAC, Taskmaster down TAC, Raikousen (3 hits), launch, l (11 hits): 8 hit stun
Dante launch, l, down TAC, Taskmaster down TAC, Raikousen (5 hits), launch, m (13 hits): 15 hit stun
Dante launch, l, down TAC, Taskmaster down TAC, Raikousen (3 hits), launch, hh (12 hits): 19+ hit stun
Dante launch, l, down TAC, Taskmaster down TAC, l Hienkyaku, launch, l (8 hits): 8 hit stun
Dante launch, l, down TAC, Taskmaster down TAC, l Hienkyaku, launch, m (8 hits): 15 hit stun
Dante launch, l, down TAC, Taskmaster down TAC, l Hienkyaku, launch, hx3 (10 hits): 20 hit stun
Dante launch, l, down TAC, Taskmaster down TAC, l Hienkyaku, launch, d.hx3 (10 hits): 20 hit stun
Dante launch, l/m/h, down TAC, l (5 hits): 17 hit stun
Dante launch, l, down TAC, Raikousen (5 hits), launch, l (11 hits): 12 hit stun[/details]

Assist combos

[details=Spoiler]Jam Session assist, l (11 hits): 10 hit stun
Jam Session assist, launch, l (12 hits): 16 hit stun
launch, Jam Session assist, l (12 hits): 16 hit stun[/details]

Zero-only Combos

[details=Spoiler]launch, l: 17 hit stun
launch, ll: 17 hit stun
launch, m: 24 hit stun
launch, h: >18 hit stun
lmc.h,launch,l (5 hits): 17 hit stun
lmc.hf.hx1,launch,l (6 hits): 16 hit stun
lmc.hf.hx2,launch,l (7 hits): 16 hit stun
lmc.hf.hx3,launch,l (8 hits): 16 hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3,launch,h (8 hits): 28? hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3,launch,hx2 (9 hits): 28? hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3,launch,d.hx3 (10 hits): 28 hit stun
lmhx3,f.hx3,launch,hx2 (11 hits): 26? hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3,launch,m (10 hits): 23 hit stun
lmhx3,f.hx3,launch,m (10 hits): 23 hit stun
j. Raikousen (3 hits), launch, l (5 hits): 17 hit stun
j. Raikousen (5 hits), launch, l (7 hits): 17 hit stun
Raikousen (5 hits), launch, l (7 hits): 17 hit stun
Raikousen (5 hits), launch, ll (8 hits): 17 hit stun
l, Charge3 (3 hits), launch, l (6 hits): 17 hit stun
Charge3 (3 hits), launch, l (5 hits): 17 hit stun
Charge3 (3 hits), launch, ll (6 hits): 17 hit stun
l, Charge3 (3 hits), launch, ll (7 hits): 16 hit stun
lmhx1,f.hx3,launch,ll (8 hits): 16 hit stun
lmhx2,f.hx3,launch,ll (8 hits): 16 hit stun
lmhx3,f.hx1,launch,ll (9 hits): 16 hit stun
lmhx3,f.hx2,launch,ll (10 hits): 16 hit stun
lmhx3,f.hx3,launch,l (10 hits): 16 hit stun
lmhx3,f.hx3,launch,ll (11 hits): 16 hit stun
j.hh,lmhx3,f.hx3,launch, l (13 hits): 16 hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3lmhx3,launch, l (13 hits): 13 hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3lmhx3,f.hx3,launch, l (16 hits): 12 hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3lmhx3,f.hx3,launch, ll (17 hits): 12 hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3,lmhx3,f.hx3,lmhx3,launch,l (21 hits): 11 hit stun
lmc.h,f.hx3,lmhx3,f.hx3,lmhx3,f.hx3,launch,l (24 hits): 8 hit stun
launch, Charge3, launch, l (6 hits): 13 hit stun
launch, Charge3 (2 hits), l Raikousen (5 hits), launch, l (10 hits): 12 hit stun
launch, Charge3, l Raikousen (5 hits), launch, ll (12 hits): 12 hit stun
j. Raikousen (1 hit), launch, m (3 hits): 24 hit stun
l, Charge3, launch, mm (7 hits): 23 hit stun
j. Raikousen (4 hits), launch, mm (7 hits): 23 hit stun[/details]

875

Hes actually playing his zero/felicia/doom team on wnf stream. Its on the front page of eventhubs for the stream link.

876

Where you guys watching Marn last night? His Zero was doing A LOT of sick stuff. I watched both him and Wong’s zero last night, and although Wong’s was a lot more safe and reliable, I thought MArn’s Zero looked a lot more advanced. His Zero’s gotten A LOT better since the last time he was on the stream. I suggest checking him out if didn’t get to catch him last night, or was too busy watching the other stream with Wong.

877

I was playing around with j.:d::h: yesterday and holy shit it’s awesome. j.:d::h: j.:s: works as an instant overhead into easy hit confirm into BnB on a bunch of characters. j.:h: doesn’t work because only the first hit will connect and the other 2 will whiff on the way up. j.:d::h: as an instant overhead will actually hit all 3 hits (on Sentinel at least, going to test more characters today).

I’ll probably test this on the whole cast later today and post the results tonight.

878

Sougenmu Unblockables: are these possible? Or does the shadow’s hits not provide low/high status–in other words, does the shadow’s jump C not hit overhead? I was trying things like, ABC Shippuga, doom rocks during this, cancel into sougenmu, C command dash, jump C > crouch attack when the shadow connected his jump C, but the computer could always block both. Am I mistiming this or are my assumptions correct and the shadow doesn’t need to be blocked high or low?

I had a computer on all block and couldn’t hit him, but are the unblockable setups genuinely unblockable (in that, under All Block they will still get hit) or is it just one of those like… as a player you have individual frames to switch from low to high or high to low resulting in an attack that is essentially unblockable?

879

I think what’s happening here is you CAN block the two hits separately, it’s difficult to make a high and low hit on the exact same frame, so you’d technically be able to block the shadow and then block the low extremely fast. This happened a lot in GG with Eddie’s unblockable drill stuff.

Computer will always block correctly unless it’s a true unblockable. Try recording a computer Zero doing it and attempt to block it yourself to find out officially.

880

I actually don’t know how to setup a recording in training mode haha, there doesn’t seem to be an option for it in the dummy settings. I think I missed something somewhere.