Capcom admitted it at one point. Someone said they saw unblockable ultra in the trailer or something. I have to watch it again. I dunno.
But it stands to reason that if that’s there then UB wont work on them
Come on, Mike, it’s online. And Japan loves Sagat, he is still the 2nd most popular character in arcades. If we go by this, Sagat is stil top tier.
Regarding what you and Blackadde said, let me post some results from vanilla:
[details=Spoiler] Evo 2009 top 8:
1st Daigo Umehara Ryu
2nd Justin Wong Rufus / Boxer / Abel
3rd Ed Ma Akuma
4th Sanford “Santhrax” Kelly Akuma / Cammy
5th Long “ShadyK” Tran Akuma
5th Eduardo “PR Balrog” Perez Boxer / E.Honda
7th Takashi “Dan” Hakushi Ryu
7th Ricky Ortiz Rufus
No Sagat in top 8
Devastation 2009:
1.Justin Wong Rufus / Abel
2nd John Choi Ryu
3rd Ed Ma Akuma
Final Round XII:
1st Justin Wong Rufus
2nd Ryan “Gootecks” Gutierrez Balrog
3rd Joe “IloveuJoe” Ciaramelli Sagat
4th Martin “Marn” Pham Balrog / Rufus
5th Mike Ross E. Honda
5th Eric “EXIST” Valencia Rufus / E. Honda
7th citiofbrass E. Honda
7th Kensou C. Viper
Norcal regionals 7:
1st Ricky Ortiz Rufus
2nd Alex Valle Ryu
3rd Peter “Combofiend” Rosas Abel
4th Hsien Chang Akuma
5th Dagger G Guile
5th Leviathan Akuma
7th LPN M. Bison
7th Anthony “Vestax” Nguyen Balrog
NEC:
1st Justin Wong Rufus
2nd FlashMetroid C.Viper
3rd Sanford “Santhrax” Kelly Sagat / Cammy / Viper / Ryu
4th Joe “ILOVEU” Ciaramelli Sagat
5th Brandon “Demon Hyo” DeShields Blanka
5th Weak Sauce Sagat
7th Steve Harrison Sagat
7th Paul Wall Akuma / Rufus
Summer jam:
1st Joe “iloveu” C Sagat
2nd Billy “MooshH” H
3rd Chris “Fascinating” Hu Ryu
4th Steve Harrison Sagat
5th DrChaos Ken
5th One “EvilDrakefang” Cammy
7th Skye “skyet” Thomson E. Honda
7th MikeW “Infinite” Boxer / Seth
Warzone:
1st Martin “Marn” Pham Ryu / C.Viper / Balrog
2nd Alex Valle Ryu
3rd Ed Ma Akuma / Balrog
4th Yeb Gen
5th UTJ Dhalsim
5th Eric Choi Ryu / Sagat
7th Ryan “Filipino Champ” Ramirez Dhalsim
7th Ari “fLoE” Weintraub Sagat
SBO:
1st Gosho / Kyabetsu Rufus / C. Viper
2nd Iyo / Shiro Dhalsim / Abel
3rd Umeso / Dashio E. Honda / C. Viper
3rd Mago / Nemo Sagat / Chun-Li
5th Daigo Umehara / Nuki Ryu / Chun-Li
5th Yazu / Bean Guile / Sagat
5th Bon chan / Togawa Sagat/ Ryu
5th Eita / Maeda Taison Gouki / M. Bison
Godsgarden 2009:
- Mago: Sagat
- Uryo: Viper
- Daigo: Ryu
- Akimo: Honda
Japan ONT:
- Iyo: Dhalsim
- RF: Sagat
- Kindevu: Rufus
- Riki: Bison
Godsgarden 2010:
- Tokido: Akuma
- Uryo: Viper
- Mizoteru: Blanka
- Momochi: Akuma [/details]
There’s no Sagat domination in tourneys, not even in Japan. And you should remember 2 things:
- in vanilla there were only 25 characters, and in arcades only 17 characters, not 39 like now - so way less variety
- the metagame has changed since then, and not in Sagat’s favour.
But one thing I don’t understand about Blufang and others: why are you guys so opposed to the idea of running both versions ? I mean, I’m not forcing you to play ES, not at all. If you are scared of vanilla Sagat and think Oni won’t be viable, then stick to Ultra version. All I’m asking is - let me enjoy what I like. Give me the choice to play ES if I want so.
As for tournaments, I say give Es a try. Run both versions, or 1 in a tourney, 1 in another. See what people likes. If it’s a mess, and nobody likes it, then we stick to Ultra. Same as happened with HF Edition. Why not giving it a chance ? what are you afraid of ?
I feel as if Ultra should be tournament standard simply because there would be less incentive to actually learn the new game if edition select was allowed.
I’d say that I’d prefer to see a move toward edition select as the standard a year or two out from now, but I don’t honestly expect the scene to ever switch gears like that partway through the game’s life in a big way. I definitely hope it’s explored, though. It would be a shame if some potential of the old characters remained forever untapped.
thats not online. thats the vanilla arcade. and like i said in the first place, tournament results from vanilla arent going to be good representations of v sagats strength. america apparently doesnt like cheap characters, having ignored v sagat and ae yun, and japan didnt run american style tournaments with any regularity
who are you going to suggest to have beaten sagat back then?
Mike, let me return the question and ask you: how many characters really beat Cammy in v.2012 ? Yet we still pride ourselves how balanced v.2012 is, and are pointing out how much character variety is in tourneys, etc
I suppose that’s fair. But I don’t think Cammy wins near as many matches in dominant fashion and I think she has more even matches.
Sagat basically had 6-4 or better against all but ryu/Akuma/claw. Add vanilla Seth if you bring in console characters
I can answer this for everyone, it’s real simple:
character got nerfed? want all versions
character getting buffed in ultra? OMG EDITION SELECT SO BROKEN WTF?!
as i said, i personally dont mind any of the two version being the official event version, am more afraid of peoples complaining about Edition select having broken stuff, capcom should state that they will never balance it at least
Emanualb, I am not opposed to it being run as a side tournament. I don’t care if people play it, I care if it replaces the main game. I saw the tier list thread, and the characters HNIC mentioned that were viable (A rank or above) and there isn’t a single one I give a shit about learning. Zero interest in any of those characters. So I’ll have zero reason to play this game.
SS-vSagat, vAkuma, vSeth
S-vRufus, aeYun, vRyu, aeYang, s/aeFei, s/2012Cammy, vViper
A-s/uGuile, vRog, ae/uMak
i think everyone down to A tier would be legit threatening, top 8 material. B tier would be competitive, but get slaughtered by multiple S tiers. C tier and lower can pack it up.
All you players who want this, just want a better version of your character. However you’ll still have someone viable to play in Ultra. ES would just close the game off to a ton of players if it’s the main game.
i appreciate it, but im no authority. its just my opinion. i might be wrong. it would have to be proven to me, but its possible 
I feel like this edition select might eventually make a crazy complicated tier list where a tournament will have 1 of each character allowed but eventually the community will decide which version is the most “balanced”
Kinda dumb you know, if your main manages to become viable after a long time, just to become unviable again. Realize this: The charcters, who could be potentially viable in ES and on top, will be most likely also viable and at least very solid in USF4, just like many others. Of course this applies only, if ES will be used as the tournament standard, but still it is a huge slap into your face, when this would happen, since you spent(or wasted) a lot of time to learn and level up with your main character, who do you love and play with passion.
After this post, I’m just lurking this thread from now on.
I still don’t understand why people (primarily blufang) are assuming that just because V.Sagat/Akuma/Seth are good, that it makes your favorite character obsolete and requires a character change. It doesn’t. You lose to Sagat? I’m sorry. Counterpick him. Mirror him. Suck it the fuck up. If your character really loses that badly against Sagat, then it really doesn’t matter which version of Sagat you fight. It’s a bad matchup for you. My characters all have a bad matchup against Sagat. Always have. At least Rose can deal with his bullshit easier. If I lose, I pick Rose. If I lose again, I go and play 3S.
Didn’t KoF2k2 have multiple versions of some characters? Didn’t ST have multiple versions of every character? Doesn’t KoF13 have multiple versions of some characters? I’ve never heard of anyone banning O.Sagat or Mr.Karate and they’re clearly tops.
TL;DR
Play the fucking character you like. Get good. Beat scrubby and mediocre (and maybe even good) V.Sagat/Akuma/Seth players. I remember watching ThaiVega beat Sagats and Seths regularly WITH VEGA. IN VANILLA. Remember that Ed Ma guy? He could pick whoever he wanted and win in Vanilla.
*Edit: Also, please don’t treat it like some hella average online player like GeoModInside is gonna pick V.Sagat and run through Evo. You think any self respecting player will allow that shit?
A better question would be ‘What should Capcom do with Edition Select?’ because what they’re doing with it right now is a bad joke. It’s a great idea that should have been the central theme of a future revision. Turning it into a gimmicky side mode that can’t be played online is stupid, but allowing it to be played online will fragment an already massively fragmented (PSN, Xbox Live, PC version) player base. It’s a lose-lose proposition at this point because of yet another boneheaded decision by the geniuses in charge of the Street Fighter franchise.
or maybe…just consider this…when people play online:
if they like Ultra, then they play Ultra
if they like ES, then they use ES
no one is being forced into using ES. if people want to spend time playing meaningless online matches with ES, let them
This. To be honest, all arguments against Edition Select in online are redundant.
Nobody is forcing you to join a game with ES enabled! Its as simple as that.
Well, from your other posts in this forum there doesn’t seem to be any character you want to play. There are other games for people who want wacky, animal characters.
There is literally no good argument against doing what VolcanicAkuma said a few posts up. Zero.
It’s just you people being petty.
Tier lists are always off, or evolving, but Vanilla’s matchup charts were really stuck in Day1 mentality. Taking SF4 and never updating it past the console characters, vortex would probably still have become the dominant strategy, just perhaps less of a lead.
Personally, I can enjoy 3 different versions of my character with Ultra being one of them if the good changes go through, so I don’t care that much about what version gets played. I do know one thing though… people know A LOT more now than they did when VSF4 was the main game. Apply new tech to the old versions and we’ll likely get some scary results.
Get this straight, and I’ve said this several times before, yet I guess some don’t read. I have no problem with ES being online for endless. Or side tournaments. My beef is ES becoming the standard, and Ultra being tossed in the trashcan. Got it? Good.