What should I be learning?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
41

Ehhhh, don’t just block jumpins by default. Sure, you don’t take damage immediatly, and yes, sometimes you do need to just block, in any particular match, sometimes you will need to just block, and if you anti-air’s aren’t working, don’t keep trying to use them, but you want to get to a point where the only time you block a jump in will be if it’s a safe jump or if he’s jumped over a fireball or a heavy attack, if it’s not one of those things, it means either you don’t know the matchup well enough, and you don’t know which anti-air to use, or you reacted too slow. The problem is that each blocked jump in gives them a free mixup every time. Street Fighter is about gaining advantage and using that to force damage, blocking Honda’s jumpins gives him control of the match and will just lead to eating Ochios.

If you can’t react, (and, yeah, I have trouble reacting fast enough to stuff Honda’s jumping mp to anti-air too) predict, and just sit there doing neutral jump HK, and try to backdash or focus backdash any jumpins that come when you aren’t currently doing nuetral jump hk, but doing that too much against a good player will end up with you in the corner, which is just as bad.

Of course, that’s probably all in the future for you, at this point, yes, you’re probably just not blocking enough :D.

42

Eating lots of Counter hits suggests that I’m throwing wild pokes out doesn’t it. hmmm. I guess there is good reason to go back through some of your matches, eh?

Yeah, taking a grab means you have to deal with a wake up as well, and with this guy, wake up was pretty damned painful, though wake up grab got him a couple times, until he learned to expect it, but he did back off.

I’ve been throwing Heavy Kikokens all over the place too, especially on their wakeup from a distance, they’re forced to block it, which pushes them back. I know BlueAsterisk mentioned that H. Kikoken should only be used in combos, but I think it works nicely for that wakeup at range, am I wrong?

43

HP Kikouken has it’s uses, it can be used as something they are forced to block after a backthrow for example.
It’s also good as a counter poke against Dhalsim’s st.hp when he is able to hit you out of MP Kikouken.
It’s also good because it moves her hitbox back a lot more than lp/mp kikouken it works better against slides and anti-fireball moves since you can be ambiguous with your spacing when you are safe and when you’re not.

However, it shouldn’t be used “all over the place”, it’s a very specific fireball used in specific situations. Most of the time you want to be using mp kikouken or if you’re fullscreen and want to close distance lp kikouken. Learning to throw kikoukens effectively with Chun is very difficult, because she doesn’t have a shoryu to anti-air with, while still having just about the same recovery as Ryu does on his hadoken. Also she because they are charge fireballs it’s difficult to be unpredictable with them in zoning since they can only be thrown in situations where you are static or moving backwards somehow.

44

actually mp kiko moves you forward and lp kiko doesnt move you at all… about hp kiko ill be trying it against blanka/m2c

45

Best moves I learned when I first started was how to correctly piano all versions of the legs from cr. :lk: and cr. :lp:. Then I moved on to linking combos after Hazanshu. It could be linked with a cr. :lk: or :lp:which leads into the previous combo. It can also be linked with the Super to allow for a very strong fireball and distance punish game.

46

What I don’t get is how a move that needs extremely precise timing can be useful? I started using Guy for a bit, and couldn’t get his target combos at all, not even once. I have done hasanshu to super before, but it took a lot of attempts, is it really possible to pull it off consistently? If it is, then how long does it take to learn?

47

Yeah it is something you can nail down… As for how long that depends on skill and time its a bit of a how long is a bit of string question…

The thing to remember that will help to get the easiest of them down is that its easier from a mk HSU (2 frame link instead of a 1 frame link I think) and as soon as you have inputted the HSU make sure you keep holding back. Then when she does the HSU you can see a blue “kinetic” motion line that she does and leaves behind (kinda like in soul caliber from sword swings)… you watch this and as soon as you can no longer see it (it fades out fairly fast but if you’re watching it you can see it) do the Super motion quickly…

This gives you the correct timing to land the Super, it doesn’t make it automatic easy mode but if you get into the habit of watching the trail and doing it as soon as it disappears you should start to nail it. Practice it enough and you’ll be able to land it regularly :slight_smile:

48

Learn the hard stuff. A lot of the difficult shit you can do with Chun are actually useful, so invest some time in the lab for it.

49

All of Chun’s difficult stuff is useful, trust me.

50

Oh, I’m definitely seeing that now. m. Hasansu to super/cr. :lk: combos are extremely good damage and punishment wise, definitely investing in them, I barely realized they were possible before.

I think I know exactly what I need to do to get better. I still jump too much (even though I jump less than the average chun), and I need to learn the difficult shit. Thank you so much for all the input, I would be a lost and super-scubby chun without this.

Meeks, we should go endless sometime. You’re obviously going to destroy me, but it could be fun. My connection might be laggy though.

These are the main things I’m now practicing:

  1. When chun is in the corner: jump head stomp, cross up :lk: cr. :lk: EX legs, EX SBK, ultra I
  2. Near corner: target combo or FA lv. 2 cr. :lp:, :hk:, EX SBK, EX SBK, Ultra I (this combo deals 700 stun)
  3. M. Hasanshu to Super
  4. :b:+:mk: :mk: FADC, head stomps
  5. FA lv. 2 :b::b::uf: head stomp, fierce, EX legs ??? Ultra I
  6. Swedish Fire Cracker (on an Xbox controller) cr.:lk: x2 EX legs, EX SBK, Ultra I
  7. Dash Ultra

A lot of this is flashy and situational, but I think it improves execution to learn these things.

51

Don’t be blinded by all the flashy shit that you can do with Chun. It’s good to learn all this, but not at the expense of good fundamentals like footsies, spacing, blockstrings, option selects, safe jumps, defense, frame traps etc. It’s no point trying to land complicated stuff if you can’t reliably set them up in the first place.

52

can i ask what frame traps you use? any vids to them or explanations.

i know there is a common one where you break up your crouching jab blockstring with a sligthly delayed standing medium punch, but any other ones she has? or are true block strings and frame traps usually 1 or 2 per character anyway?

also thanks to deadmarch, wii, meeks, skatan and everyone who has made this topic, its been a great rescource for me as i try to take on something similar myself (in basics terms be half decent ;))

all of my time is going to training mode right now (and its so fun seeing myself improve each day, never mind what ill be like in a few weeks), but ill make sure to focus on spacing and footsies defense and zoning/AA when i head back online, (non ranked)

53

crouch jab into close standing roundhouse is one. If you get the counterhit then cancel into light hazanshu then combo into whatever.

54

Chun doesn’t have a lot of natural clean frame traps like some characters do, so it’s really all about reading your opponent and when they press buttons for crouch techs. The only one I know of, and one I personally love to use is cr.mk, c.lk. Cr.lp, Cs.hk is actually a true blockstring, so you have to delay cs.hk to give your opponent a window of opportunity to press a button, otherwise they’ll just end up blocking it. I also like to use cr.lp, cr.mk. Hit confirming from CH mk into cr.lk xx ex.legs is pretty easy.

55

What Meeks said… Chun isn’t a frame trap machine but at the same time most buttons in combination with each other can make traps to varying degrees. Its about catching your opponent out, conditioning them and learning when they press buttons or cr.tech. I find the best thing to do is either go for cr.LP into tick throw a few times (to get them “reading” your habit) then mix i t up and generally always start with cr.LP, cl.HK… See if it hits them, if it does then they are probably mashing cr.tech so don’t use loose traps…

Another good way to get a read on someone is when close do cr.LK (x2) then just walk away a little, did you see a button press come out from them as you backed off and if so what. If you did then next time instead of backing away try either cr.MK or cr.HK after the 2 LK’s. If things aren’t working and they are delaying the cr.tech or button presses get creative.

For example off a jump in if they block, hold towards them for a split second then press cl.HK and cancel it into either HSU or regular legs (EX if you can confirm it well enough), see jump in straight into cl.HK is a true blockstring but by leaving a slight gap (very slight often) you can trick people into thinking you’re going to throw… You just need to take note of what your opponent does and doesn’t do early on in the match and work from there…

Here is a list of a few simple things that can in some fashion be used to trap people:

cr.LK, cl.HK
cr.LP, cl.HK
cr.LP, cr.HK
cr.LP x2, 1 step back cr.HK
cr.LK, cr.LP (or x2 LP), LK HSU
cr.LP, cr.HP (cancel into something)
cr.MK, st.MP (loose trap)
cr.LK, cr.LP, hold towards and cl.HK (loose trap)
cr.HP xx Legs, cr.LP, cr.HP (cancel into something)
cl.HK, cr.LP/LK

Anyway I could make a much larger list but really I think you get the idea, start by trying to read the person then work in very tight strings and over the fight/set vary the buttons, combinations and looseness…

For reference watch Skatan fight Yagami in the stream he linked as he uses some nice pressure, that’s Chun strength rather than calling them frametraps or watch the first fight here:

[media=youtube]t0NhQ93E3Nc[/media]

Now I’m not saying I should have been allowed to get away with a lot of this but it was about fight 20 against this guy so I felt I had a good read on him and had conditioned him fairly well before hand, but if you look nearly everything I do is a trap of some sort (note though a LOT of it was unsafe)

56

Thanks, I’ve been trying to up my pressure up close, and I’ve made some serious improvments over the month IMO so it’s nice when someone takes notice. It’s worth remembering that this is against Dhalsim so against characters with shoryuken-moves it’s important to be more accurate in what options you choose to keep the pressure going since the risk is greater if you get beaten out.

57

If you can get away with something you should keep doing it until the success stops. This game is all about exploiting your opponent. The only thing to consider is that the same tricks don’t always work on a different opponent. My theory is that nothing you do is bad (or bad practise) unless you keep doing it when the success rate drops. You should only get worried if you get into a habit of doing something thinking that it should “always” work because it’s worked in previous matchups and thus start implementing it in every game you play.

58

u should learn her pokes first (she has a ton of good pokes),then u can learn her combo’s (she has a ton of good combos as well),then u can focus on match-up’s once u learn her matches you should be pretty solid,then u can take it online or in tournaments or to your friends FYI if u need me to help u or help guide u message me on xbl xXx 2 SliickxXx

59

Just thought I would update this thread instead of the Q+A thread as its turning into a gold mine for any guys like me. (and xDeadMarchx, but I imagine his ability are way ahead of mine right now.

I have been in training mode almost 95% over the last two weeks, learnt lots of her most advanced stuff, can do it all pretty well. Will still stick with it till I can do it all 98% of the time though.

Still I’m finding my game is becoming stale online. I am patient, and have good run away and defence against the fairly standard characters (always get out crossed against ibuki/seth/viper etc.)

But it’s my offense that’s stale, I don’t know how to start it and keep it going without getting an uppercut to the chin. I know all these crazy chun techniques but hardly use any of them, because I don’t know how to start, sustain, or really apply pressure, with a character that seems built for it.

60

its not absolutely necessary to maintain pressure. look at the video skatan posted recently on the video thread of him against starnab. okay he does the reaction CH mp into ultra but he spent most of the match keeping starnab out(i just realised, the ultra was a result of keeping starnab out as well). he never had a period of sustained pressure i think. with chun it’s not necessary absolutely necessary to really apply and sustain pressure on the opponent. well unless it’s dhalsim.

but everybody has his own style, where i play there used to be the two best chun’s who were polar opposites in style. one would keep the opponent out and the other would rush the opponent down like crazy, randomly FADCing MPs and cr.MKs to apply pressure.

find your own style i guess? chun-li is a pretty versatile character.