Hey guys, so I’ve had my HRAP3 for a few years now and I think it’s finally time for a replacement. I am aware the Seimitsu LS-32-01 won’t fit on the bracket unless I do modifications or purchase a new plate and of course I would like to avoid all of that, do you guys’ know what joystick will fit on the HRAP3 mounting bracket and what would you recommend, besides the Sanwa JLF?
Thanks guys!
If you mean the HRAP 3 (vanilla, NOT the HRAP 3 SA or HRAP 3 SE), your choices are very limited —
Get a shaft extension piece… This will extend the length of the LS-32 or LS-40 to the proper height. Note that you have to use the RE: Flat Mount piece that ships with all LS-40 models and the LS-32 (no -01) and the LS-32-02 (PCB model, uses the flat plate).
I tried this myself on LS-40’s… I HATED it. I’m used to the regular length of the of the LS-32 and LS-40 and by extending the shaft a 2-3mm you’re essentially turning it into a different control lever. You can get used to this but it felt awkward to me.
LS-32’s and LS-40’s will only fit onto the Hori non-universal mount using the RE: Flat Mounting Plate. It’s an awkward fit but it matches up with the screw holes… (I could go into a rant about the lack of quality control on the mounting plates of Hori joysticks – the screw threads in the mounting plate are horribly drilled, tend to strip screw threads, and this shoddy workmanship has affected over half the HRAP’s I’ve bought – but this thread isn’t about Hori OR Mad Catz’s quality control or lack thereof on certain aspects of their joysticks.)
Be aware that not many part vendors sell shaft extension pieces anymore. They tend to sell total replacement shafts that cost more. The last vendors I’m aware of that sell extension pieces are based in Europe. Ask around in Trading Outlet and see if somebody has spares or shaft extension pieces they don’t want to use.
I found that the extension pieces I used to use were compatible with the JLF (with shaft cover), LS-32 (with or without the JLF shaftcover mod), and LS-40. It’s not an awkward fit (in fact, it’s much harder to take the extensions off WITHOUT scratching them than it is to screw them on tight) and doesn’t impact shaft covers at all.
Drill through the welds of the original mounting piece on the HRAP 3, wiggle the original mounting piece under the faceplate off, and then drill new holes to mount flat plates of alternate control levers like the LS-32 and LS-40… Use screws or flush rivets to mount or suspend the alternate joystick of your choice. Really, really messy mod.
Be aware that some people DO NOT like to buy heavily modified joysticks. Take this into account if you think you might sell the joystick down the line.
This counts as an extreme modification mod and is best done with lesser-grade joysticks like the American T5 Joystick… At this time, people almost expect the licensed HRAP’s and non-HRAP’s to be modded…
*** 3) Buy an LS-56-01 or LS-58-01. The MS Mounting Plate that comes with the LS-58-01 and some LS-56-01’s will fit onto the non-universal HRAP 3 mounting area. Only a very few LS-56-01’s sold in the US come equipped with the MS Mounting Plate. It’s not the default mounting plate but some places like VideoGamesNewYork order their LS-56’s pre-equipped with this mounting plate; the MS Mounting Plate is universal for Hori HRAP’s and Mad Catz joysticks and fits into non-universal mounting sites (HRAP 1’s and HRAP 3’s, licensed HRAP variants). All Mad Catz joysticks have universal joystick lever mounts; newer HRAP designs as well as the HRAP SA and HRAP SE models and all HRAP 2’s are universal, too.
The stock LS-56-01 mounting plate, the VF, should fit the HRAP 3, too, but no guarantees there. Most other vendors still sell the LS-56-01 with the stock VF Mounting Plate. (Everybody SHOULD sell the joysticks with the mounting plates that fit everything but they generally don’t bother much to the dismay of customers who hate to have to pay $5 extra for a part that should be standard on the joystick levers they buy. I like the LS-40-01 myself but hate the fact that I have to buy an SS Mounting Plate separate every time I want to install an LS-40-01 into a new production joystick.)
The MS Mounting Plate should work with all the newer joysticks on the market.
IF you buy an LS-58-01, it is recommended that you go ahead and buy an LS-56 spring… The LS-58 is basically a revamped LS-56 but uses a softer spring. Many people have commented they feel the joystick performs better with the original LS-58 spring swapped out for an LS-56 spring.
seimitsu ls-55 / ls-56 / ls-58 with an P=40 flat, MS, or VF mounting plate.
i suggest just go with the P=40 Flat mounting plate, just in case you wanna use the stick on other types of brackets too.
have you tried using the ZIPPYY joystick’s long shaft variation? I assume its roughly the same spec as the LS-32, seeing that it’s a clone of it, it might be usable instead of the fugly extension piece showing.
Nah, it’s still a different length shaft. It upsets the balance of the joystick where I’m concerned.
The only replacement shaft I’ll ever buy is a short hollow Zippyy/LS-32 replacement if I ever get around to doing an LED project. (I’m kind of hoping Mad Catz or Hori picks up the ball and makes the point moot. A quality mass-market joystick with pushbutton and control lever LED at an affordable price would be nice…)
I’m not crazy about control lever mods beyond a little spring tension adjustment. I laugh at the fact that the market for JLF replacement parts is as big as it! What does that say about the JLF??? Just popular or extremely uncomfortable for many people… Seems to be problematic with all the part tweaks for it. It’s cheaper to just buy a replacement control lever!
With cheap stuff like the T5 joystick I don’t have a problem modding the faceplate… With the more expensive joysticks like the HRAPs, that’s where my own issues on extreme modding explode.
Faceplate mods always have the potential for extreme bends that will make the faceplate unusable, poorly drilled and poorly spaced holes, and all those holes you have left over just look nasty unless you cover them over with artwork or fill them in with fiberglass/clay patching. All that can happen even with a work bench and drill press.
Thanks guys this is really helpful.
I am currently online shopping and I found some sites that sell a LS-32-02 but the shipping is pretty pricey, but if I’m able to get it I could probably drill holes on the original bracket and I am aware of the shaft being shorter than the Sanwa JLF which I am totally fine with and if I’m not I will try to find an extended shaft or like what GeorgeC said, check the Trading Outlet. Also I’ve read from other members saying that the LS-56 and LS-58 is apparently sensitive. And I have some interest on the Zippy joystick but I couldn’t find one that has the thing where you plug the joystick harness with.
Okay so I found an LS-32-02 on Paradise Arcades with reasonable shipping. So what do you guys think?
That or the Zippyy works fine… Zippyy (classic, short handle) has basically the same specs and mounting plate as a LS-32-02 except the -02 has the same 5-pin harness PCB that the LS-32-01 has… The only difference between the LS-32-02 and LS-32-01 is the mounting plate. The -01 version of the LS-32 has the SS Mounting Plate which fits into the universal mounting plates of about every major pro-level joystick on the market.
I asked Susan, the wife of Bryan who started Paradise Arcade Shop about the JLF 0.187 harness adapter for the silent JLF. She tested it and says the same harness should work with the LS-32 (0.187 tabs, no PCB, standard arcade version of the LS-32) and the Zippyy joysticks. The only thing I didn’t like was the price but I figured if I buy the Zippyy from Paradise Shop in the future that I’ll go ahead and get the harness from them since the Zippyy is already less than the half the price of the PCB versions of the LS-32 and $10 less than the 0.187 tab LS-32.
Here’s the link to the harness that SHOULD work with the LS-32 (tab version) and Zippyy classic arcade stick (go for the short handle version unless you need the longer shaft model for HRAP 3 or wood panel mounting) =>
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/microswitches/588-jlf-187-micro-harness-0855742005888.html
(NOTE: The harness adapter for the Korean Crown 303-FK joystick should work as well… Don’t know if Paradise Shop will carry it but I know at least Focus Attack should be carrying it… Same thing as the Paradise Shop adapter basically… => http://www.focusattack.com/187-to-5-pin-conversion-harness/ This sort of thing had to sourced out or modded by individuals in the past unless they were shipping these with the 0.187 tab joysticks… I really don’t know. The whole pin-conversion harness/adapter issue didn’t start rearing its head until the Crown 303-FK and Sanwa silent JLF joysticks hit market this past year.)
I have an interest in getting a Zippyy to test how well the silent version of the Zippyy/LS-32 mod kit works. (The “Seimitsu” silent mod kit is $10 versus the $35 cost of the JLF silent mod kit… Of course, you COULD buy the classic arcade JLF clone and save money there instead of buying a genuine production JLF… Again, something for other people to keep in mind.)
This is the type of thing I want to test in a custom refitted joystick before I’d put it in one of the newer Hori or Mad Catz designs. The lower price of the Zippyy makes it an economical and attractive silent joystick mod option if you don’t particularly care for the Sanwa JLF OR paying for a silent JLF (which is ridiculously overpriced any way you slice it, mod kit or not). Also, every peripheral I like to equip my LS-32’s with (custom balltops, modified JLF shaft covers) should similarly work with a Zippyy classic joystick since it’s nearly identical to the LS-32 in every standard measurement. The SS Mounting Plate, Seimitsu microswitches, and restrictor gates also fit the Zippyy joystick.
I actually have a LS-32 PCB laying on my bookshelf, since you said the Zippy is identical will it fit on the restrictor plate and bracket?
since it’s a clone, it most likely will… but dont quote me on that.
honestly its better if you just take the shaft from a zippy and put it in the seimitsu… you’re gonna need a c-ring/clip tool though, it might be tough to get it back.
it’s gonna feel more lousy/loose, so I ended up using a JLW spring on mine. it’s not completely silent, but it is a quieter sound.
sort of unrelated but since it’s been brought up… I personally find the loose switches/non-pcb type 2-pin type connections to be much more reliable, because if one switch dies or goes bad, just replace that one, no unsoldering needed, and such… And i’ve personally have had bad experiences with Seimitsu 5-Pin pcb’s… the ls-32’s aren’t very secure, mine has snapped one or two times trying to fit it in a madcatz TE with kitty (i guess its too cramped haha), and i’ve had ls-56 pcb’s where the soldered points snapped off the pcb, while in a cabinet/control panel, which is very odd. maybe it’s just bad luck and stupidity haha…
Most likely huh? Hmm, I can buy a Zippy and if the LS-32 PCB doesn’t fit well I can use the Zippy. And the Zippy mounting plate will fit on the vanilla HRAP3 right, or do I have to modify it?
first off, your hrap 3 mounting bracket looks like this right?
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/274/ssandbracket.png
if so, you can do this without any drilling needed
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6763/reandbracket.png
i found those images here in one of the threads. that’s a Seimitsu FLAT mounting plate (RE) on 2nd pic, if your seimitsu came with it, then you’re good, if not, you’re gonna have to source one (i have a few of those, just holler if you need one). so yeah, its best to just use a seimitsu RE plate.
sorry if we’re unsure about the ZIPPY joysticks, I just trying to figure out solutions based on pictures and videos i’ve seen of it, and to me, it looks exactly like seimitsu ls-32… the fact that they can use the same kind of long armed microswitches is also very telling that both sticks are virtually identical.
BUT I assume the mounting plate of the ZIPPY will not fit, because based on this picture:
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/ZIPPYY-Arcade-Joystick-Short-Shaft-for-Metal-Control-Panel-Mutlicade-Part-/00/s/NjAwWDYwMA==/$(KGrHqFHJDEE-pY9qdY-BPtENQsSh!~~60_3.JPG
it looks like it uses different size screws for the plate to be attached.
here’s the ls-32 in comparison
Dang this is complicated with the bracket. And yes that’s how the bracket looks, anyways, might as well purchase the LS-32-02 that I found on Paradise Arcade.
Oh since the Seimitsu LS-32 and Zippy are identical, does that mean I can take the Zippy shaft and put it on the LS-32?
haha yeah, this is what i’ve been saying all along.
reason is, the zippy shaft is longer, the stock seimitsu ls-32 shaft will be too low if mounted to the hrap3 like in the picture.
iwfgyQ~~60_57.JPG)
only problem is… i think the zippy long shaft will be instead a bit too tall if mounted. you might need to resort to using spacers for the bolts to further lower it when mounted… but try it out and let us know how it goes.
sorry if this is too much work… but you seem to be set-on in getting an LS-32 to fit on a HRAP3 bracket. these are the ‘simplest’ and “cheapest” solutions i could think of, if anyone else has ideas, please do chime in. like we’ve said, there are alternative seimitsu sticks that will work on the hrap3 bracket on-the-fly.
I jsut checked and if you wanna be fancier…
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/paradise-arcade-custom-parts/237-seimitsu-or-zippyy-long-stainless-steel-hollow-joystick-shaft-0855742002375.html
it’s the same idea, just less hassle, an those aluminum shafts are less prone to rusting badly. but buying a zippy joystick will cost less.
http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/en/imported-joysticks/45-classic-arcade-stick-zippy-long-0855742000456.html
Yeah I’ve heard the LS-32 is a very good stick so I’m interested but I heard people said the LS-56 is very sensitive when moving the stick, how do you feel when using the LS-56, does it actually feel sensitive?
They have two types of Zippyy’s in-stock.
The short shaft Zippyy is near-identical to the stock LS-32. You have to realize stock LS-32’s have shorter shafts than the JLF; that’s why the SS Mounting Plate curves up the way it does to fit into universal mounting plates on home joystick case mounts.
You can buy optional longer shafts and hollow shaft/LED alternates for the LS-32 but those aren’t made by Seimitsu. Paradise Arcade Shop specializes in alternate joystick shafts and in particular hollow shafts to allow LED’s to be mounted to light up balltop handles. The “LED shafts” also come in shorter (standard) and longer length variants, too.
There is a longer shaft Zippyy arcade stick produced, too. Only difference from the standard LS-32 clone Zippyy is the longer shaft. It’s made primarily for wood mounting faceplates since wood (naturally!) tends to thicker than metal faceplates. Wood was more commonly used in American cabinets for mounting hardware than in Japanese cabs. That’s why we have the thinner-sheet metal faceplate legacy carried down in Japanese joysticks made for home consoles.
When I say the Zippyy can be used as an LS-32 alternate, I’m talking about the shorter shaft version. I’m not particularly crazy about the longer shaft on the LS-32 or putting an extension on the LS-40 because it will change the joystick throw characteristics a bit. It’s not a huge change and I was able to play retro-fighters with dash moves fine on my home consoles but I still didn’t like the feel and ultimately discontinued use of shaft extensions. (They also made the shaft length above the faceplate TOO long. It’s actually closer to regulation length – at least as far as the LS-40 is concerned – without the shaft extension!) I preferred to mod the faceplate on my one AH2 joystick to mount the LS-40 at the proper height. Concern about altering that AH2 faceplate was a moot point since I had already accidentally drilled through the faceplate 2 months before I got the shaft extensions!
(In the interim, I scanned the AH2 faceplate art into my computer and digitally removed the extra drill hole I accidentally made. I may or may not convert back to the original art in the future… At least I have a restored and archived version stored on my computer and backed-up to disc!)
The shafts are interchangeable between the Zippyy and LS-32. Makes no difference which you mount on which base. The screw positions look the same on the plastic bases of these homologous joysticks so the Seimitsu mounting plates SHOULD work with the Zippyy, too. You can always ask Susan or Bryan at Paradise Arcade Shop about that… people just tend to get the LS-32-01 (or -02) because they’re more convenient for standard home joysticks since the 5-pin harness connection is what’s standard for joysticks now. That wasn’t the case for the 1990s.
Shops still carry the LS-32 tab version because people have arcade cabinet setups they want to replace control levers. Those arcade unit levers tend to use 8-point 0.187 tab connections so there’s no point in getting a PCB version of an LS-32. The standard (short-shaft) Zippyy is just a clone of the regular LS-32 people buy to save some money. Performs basically the same from what I’ve read in posts from other people.
IF I did buy a Zippyy, I’d still have to buy an SS Mounting plate to attach it to most joysticks – including my Agetec mods – since that’s what attaches the LS-32 to those cases. I’ve only had to use the RE Mounting Plate for the HRAP 3 and faceplate-modded AH2 and American T5’s… After the mods I did on the AH2 and T5’s, it was more convenient to use the RE flat plate rather than the SS Mounting plate; I removed the original welded Hori mounting plate on both joysticks’ faceplates and every standard Japanese joystick you can think of that fits in the case interior of a Hori HRAP can generally be mounted. It’s especially good to remove the T5 mounting plate because it can interfere with the rotation and throw of even the JLF depending on how well the assembly line workers welded the non-standard mounting plate on those joysticks’ faceplates. It also frees up enough space to use the second dustwasher on the JLF as well as JLF shaft-covered versions of the LS-32. Yes, I mod JLF shafts to cover the bare metal alloy of the LS-32 to protect if from corrosion. Generally, the second dustwasher of the JLF-CD kit can’t be used with the LS-32 because of the SS Mounting Plate mounting right underneath the faceplate BUT use a RE: Mounting Plate on a modded faceplate allows enough room to use the second JLF dustwasher to cover the pivot hole of the LS-32. May not be absolutely necessary but it does add a second anti-dust collector, too.
FYI, it should be possible to use a second dustwasher on HRAP 3-mounted LS-56’s, too. I confirmed there was enough room to do this on the LS-58… Seeing as the joysticks are basically the same unit with only a few plastic base changes to the LS-58 probably means the LS-56 has clearance to use a second JLF dustwasher if you wanted as well.
So if I put in the long Zippy shaft on the LS-32 ON the HRAP3 it’ll be slightly longer than the JLF right? And again is it true what people say about the sensitivity of the LS-56/LS-58?
Okay so I’ve decided to purchase the LS-32-02 and possibly the Zippy just for the shaft, since I need a c ring pliers do I need a specific size or just any one will work?
Any pair/set that do external snap rings.
You might also want to invest in a e-clip to replace the snap ring, as e-clips are easier to install (and remove again if needed)
Correct on both counts…
The LS-56 is still the third most popular joystick lever option after the Sanwa JLF and Seimitsu LS-32-01.
It’s what you get used to, what’s your favorite, etc.
It seems like a lot of people are customizing the LS-58’s with LS-56 springs. It’s on my to-get list, too.
I hope the Zippyy long shaft works out for you!
Oh, and as far as the E-clip replacement for the C-clip’s on the LS-32/Zippyy are concerned, people generally buy the the 7/16" or 3/8" E-clip. Either will fit the LS-32/Zippyy shaft and still clear the restrictor gate. I’ve never noticed the E-clip interfering with lever option and I’ve been doing this mod for at least 4 years now.
It’s a good idea to use a small towel/rag to install the E-clip, though. You can hurt yourself installing the E-clip otherwise. You just have to figure out how to use muscle to put the E-clip on. I’d recommend buying at least 2 C-clips in whatever size you choose in case you do bend a E-clip by accident.
The first installation of the E-clip is hardest… If you ever have to take it off, I’d suggests using a small “hobby” screwdriver. Once the E-clip gets removed a time or two, it gets easier to slip back on.
The problem with the original C-clip Seimitsu puts on the LS-32 is that it requires a special tool (or loop and wire) to remove and replace that wire. C-clip’s lose their elasticity quickly and no longer hold the LS-32 shaft on securely after just 2 removals. Your shaft assembly can fall apart on you at the worst possible times.
You shouldn’t have to be buying a special tool for to remove a screw/clip – especially one (C-clip) that becomes unreliable very quickly. E-clips are much stronger and last longer. That’s why E-clips are more standard hardware for most joysticks.
The LS-32 is “different” on several accounts and why Seimitsu hasn’t changed it (ie, redesigned a bit) in all these years to be a bit more convenient to install and service is beyond me. It’s a tank of a joystick (bulky, bigger than most) and has some peculiar traits (no purpose-built shaft cover, PCB must be removed for mounting plate screw-on’s, tendency to pop shaft when handled roughly, and an uncharacteristically short shaft by most general standards).
Nonetheless, the LS-32 has generally good handling characteristics (medium throw, very good recentering, nice “touch” and good sensitivity but not overly sensitive) and is customizable where it helps best for a lot of people (easy to tweak joystick tension unlike the LS-40, its closest relative in design and feel amongst the other LS series joysticks).
A lot of people like the LS-40 and LS-56 but more people complain about those being overly sensitive and taking time to adjust to ("acquired tastes) than the LS-32. I can definitely see that point; most days of the week I can use an LS-32 but there really are only a few times I’m as comfortable and as good with the LS-40. An LS-40 CAN “get away” from you if you’re not relaxed. It’s a much easier joystick to “overpower” and find yourself flailing on than the LS-32… and supposedly, the LS-56 is even worse in those respects. (Ditto with the LS-58 from personal experience.)
I do like the LS-32 but acknowledge is isn’t a perfect piece of hardware. My main gripes are the bulkiness and Seimitsu’s over-dependence on screws to hold the thing together otherwise I think’s it possibly the most versatile Japanese joystick lever on the market. It works well with just about every 2-D game genre developed and is especially good with early 1980s retro games (Pac-Man, Donkey), 2-D retro fighters (CPS-2, Neo Geo), and 2-D poly fighters (SF IV, Dead or Alive series, Tekken series, Soul Calibur, etc.) and newer hand-drawn extravaganzas (BlazBlu, Guilty Gear series, Skullgirls).