Well the main thing people are arguing is that throw/frame trap isn’t good enough. If AA’s are that bad then that’s something else the game needs to fix on its own also.
If it takes people picking up invincible assists to stay away from low/throw in Skullgirls than so be it I guess (although that’s very presumptuous to say when the game is not out yet). It’s kind of a different game especially since you can air block to negate high/low mix ups. There’s no “oh shiii crazy mix up lemme just negate it by jumping and blocking” in SFxT.
Not sure exactly how forcing people on the ground works. I didn’t play much Marvel 2 but Marvel 3 basically has it so you have grounded frames during your jump where you are grounded and unable to block low. Which I doubt Skullgirls will have so it’ll be interesting to know how that’s dealt with.
sigh I read half these posts and realize people don’t understand jack.
Play footsies? Do you realize have the reason footsie characters worked was because of the throw? Again you people seem to fail at grasping the concept that unless their is an impending peril good players will just block till the situation favors them.
That is how it works in KOF 13, well that and half the cast has a command throw. Then again though in KOF 13 you have unthrowable frames at the same time.
Meterless reversals are made worse because everyone has an invincible backdash, alpha counter, and safe wakeup roll now. Some characters have no unique reversals at all.
But with more costly reversals, low-risk/reward pressure (jab/throw) becomes better.
For that reason, and also because every character can dash cancel now, throws were weakened.
You can imagine a thought process that makes sense, at least. SFxT throws are only bad on paper.
Well, offense is weak for alot of reasons.
1)Throws suck, makes frame traps super weak.
2)Too many escape options. Tons of EX moves have invul, lots of reversals, Backdashes can’t be OSed with any reliability or practicality. Alpha Counters.
3)Damage. The opponent will usually get more damage off whatever random invulnerable more they mash on then you would have off your overhead.
4)With tags, alot of these options aren’t just safe, but leave the opponent with an advantage.
5)Rolls in tandem with the above.
Footsies however are extremely strong in this game. This is because you have tons of things to buffer with that lead to tons of damage. Often times its in you best interest to not apply any pressure or oki and just go back to footsies as the risk reward on the latter is way too fucked up. It also makes characters that are supposed to be pressure characters really really weak.
On the topic of the throws specifically. I understand why they are weaker (compared to SF4). SF4 throws had really good range, and in this game they wanted to emphasize high/low over strike/throw. That’s all fine, but the mechanics of the game are still built around strike/throw as its trying to emulate SF4 a bit too much. I just went into why offense and high/low are exceptionally weak because blocking is overly weak. Now because throws are also garbage, the whole defense package is retardedly strong in this game. This contributes to alot of the “randomness” and the time issues as the game actively prevents one player from getting an advantage and practically forces the game back to neutral any time anyone gets close to anyone else.
The only problem is that many characters don’t have a good overhead, don’t have an overhead period, or have an overhead that’s buried 7 moves into a predictable/mashable/unsafe Tekken string.
Xiaoyu as an example. She has what most people call a good overhead. It’s + on block and leads to 350-400 damage. That’s her main offensive option.
Now lets look at the defenders options. He has a DP, which may or may not be safe if tag canceled. If it hits, he can tag cancel and do 400-500 damage. He has an alpha counter, if tag canceled can do 300-400 damage. He has a backdash, most character would be able to punish teh overhead after backdashing it for 350-500 damage, and the few that could not, would then still have the advantage.
This is the usually offensive situation in this game. Its stupid.
In a normal game, the defenders options are. DP, very unsafe if baited and leads to 100 damage and a techable knockdown. Mashing, loses to frame traps. Blocking, notice how I didn’t mention that one before. In SFxT, defense is so good that blocking is often times the dumbest thing you could do.
You’re not looking at it quite the right way. If the overhead is +(or chains into something that is + on block, or some sort of unreactable pressure reset that moves you forward, like certain feints) and is hard/unreasonable to interrupt on reaction, then blocking isn’t sufficient to getting out of pressure. You have to hit buttons because eventually your reactions will fail you when you end up having to block the 3rd overhead or whatever.
I realize most(or no) SFxT overheads aren’t like this. But the point is that there are other mixups in games that make players want to hit buttons and beat downback.
Oh no, people actually actually have to want to prevent mixup by hitting buttons in neutral? Shocking. Welcome to a ton of fighting games.
No I am looking at it in quite the right way. I realize there may be exceptions to the rule, but the general rule is that most characters are going to be average and the few who actually have those tools will be top tier and dominate the metagame.
Then in typical Capcom fashion they will nerf those characters and the game will fall into an even worse situation.
You don’t need to do the overhead part of the string. If you have a 3 move chain and the 3rd hit is an overhead, you can just do the 1st two hits and then go into a low attack.
A lot of this thread, and this whole forum, sounds to me like people complaining that they can’t flowchart and autopilot their way through matches.
Throws are actually not that bad because of the immense block stun, fast walk speeds and slow normals. If you keep walking forwards and jabbing, one of those jabs will probably hit. Once you’ve trained your opponent to block those jabs for longer, you’ll be able to just walk up and throw him after 1 or 2 jabs. You can also create 50/50 situations after dash cancelling.
This game doesn’t really reward you very much for having decent set play which I think is what a lot of intermediate SF4 players thought was the pinnacle of fighting games. It rewards you more for reading your opponent and punishing their bad decisions.
that’s because rolento is a dumb bitch, why would anyone try to out-poke a rolento player? i’ll block that all day and open your ass up with a alpha counter, exposed.
Hmmm because if it looks like a cat, meows like a cat, smells like a cat, was built from the same engine as a cat, copy and pasted a lot characters like a cat, and likes sticking its butt in your face like a cat.
It is probably a cat.
It’s a SF game, the argument this isn’t part of the SF series is hog wash.
