That’s fine, and I see no reason for us to evangelize the hobby specific to demographics either.
I just think dialing down the hostility toward people who do nothing to bring it on themselves needs to happen already, damn. There are enough big egos around to deflate that we don’t need to put the screws to just anyone lol.
Anyway the amount of told going on in this thread is making me hungry for more youtube videos.
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Evo we can go to the articles they cite if you like. I’m sure a high-falutin’ guy like you has access to the articles in academic journals, even!
Yeah that’s fair, I also personally just don’t like the community get divided on issues that aren’t really worth all the drama. The effort should be trying to make the best community i think, and hopefully everyone in general will feel more inclined to join in ya know.
I had a big response that I was going to post, but I’ll just pare it down to this:
To argue that such things as “social norms” and social pressures don’t exist (or play no part in this topic) is an unsupportable position, IMO. Social norms play a huge part in determining what interests and hobbies boys and girls pick up, as they’re (often) taught when they’re young what they’re “supposed” and “not supposed” to like. Perhaps there’s some sort of biological or evolutionary component as well, but I’d consider it pretty hard to argue that such a thing as “women generally don’t like video games” is somehow 100% due to biological “brain wiring” and social pressures have nothing to do with it.
Besides that, for counter-cases (women who like video games, men who hate sports)…what would that say? That they have something wrong with their brains? Something is wrong with them biologically?
Also, +1 for the “reasonable discussion” bit. Good-natured debates can be enjoyable. Hostile rants (especially about such a tangential topic like this) are stupid.
Anyhow I reject the construct as the basis of behavior idea because i personally think the constructs exist as a result of biology, and since it is a scientific fact that men and women do think and perceive things differently(it’s more then just a"perhaps")i think this is a more scientific explanantion.However I don’t think anyone here is saying their is a specific study that links female biology to video games, we are just saying that females are inherently less inclined to like fighting games due to it not appealing to female sensibilities. We also have to take into account that the FGC has attempted in the last few years to"socially construct" opportunities within the FGC so that more women will show…I don’t think anyone outside women themselves can help their low attendance at tournaments.
Good for you Evo. No one with even shred of intellectual honesty sees it that way, though. Maybe, some day you can take those positions and do research to substantiate them definitively so the other few million smarter people discussing this can shut up already.
The nature vs. nurture thing is extremely contentious and you ought to know the controversies surrounding it pretty damn well to try to stifle one side of the debate on it altogether. The Wiki pages I linked are backed up by citations to outside, reputable sources from academia that I could then turn around and read and spoonfeed back to you. I’m sure you’ll accuse them of setting out with some kind of PC agenda, so I’m not going to play that game with you. You’re not worth the effort and if the ignore function worked you’d be a shoo-in for #1 on the list.
Your fanatic disposition in ignoring science and the sciences that prove conclusively that male and females are inherently different anatomically and neurologically is the only “intellectual dishonesty"happening in this thread. Your citing wiki as a omniscient resource of information and forget that there exist plenty of reputed sources that have state the exact opposite of what you just posted. Your acting like all the research done Into the neurological and hormonal gendered effects on sexual dimorphism are done by random run of the of mill lab coats that dont have a clue what their talking about…yet somehow you and your PC sources that root"socialization” as the cause for every male and female difference is the ONE AND TRUE outlet on gender differences. In your view, its like all the research that has been conducted that reveal biology being a root in why men and women act differently is irreverent…cause I guess the only reason why men and women would act differently from each other is because they were"constructed that way".
The only reason the nurture vs nature debate continues is because of post mondernist pseudo intellectuals like yourself who reject the notion of binary gender behavior due to some conflict it presents to your warped perspective of reality where science is secondary to"what I think is true". I’m sure you would love Sweden then as some schools don’t even refer to each other by genders anymore but instead as"friends"to maintain a pc and non enforcing climate of gender expectations. Perhaps we will see the 1st evo female champion from their, or maybe even a super high attendance of female gamers should they ever develop a massive FGC according to your reasoning.Granted it isn’t like we don’t have cases of boys raised as girls( who still act like boys ) due to botched circumcisions that prove gendered behavior isn’t leaned but innate but meh…I guess they were not socialized hard enough like the rest of the women in society which must be the reason they still acted like boys lmao.
Anyways man I apolooze of my radical idea that women don’t play games as much as men because it doesn’t appeal to them offended you so much, I mean it isn’t like the FGC hasn’t tried reaching out to them or anything…I guess that pesky societal expectation is just too big of a wall for women to knock down. Maybe it’s the same wall that prevents the majority of boys from getting into twilight or from wearing make up…geez this social construction stuff is like super god tier strong yo. At any rate this has been fun but I can’t join you in your wonderland of nonsense anymore. I’m just to logical and rational of a man to go down that rabbit hole so have fun on my ignore list as well. Although when you do write your essays of bullshit maybe a couple girls will read them and overcome their deeply entrenched societal programming…perhaps with your help millions of irks will attend this years evo and occupy all the top 32 spots in each game:)
The problem isn’t that the tournies are a hostile environment; anime & comic book conventions fit the exact description everyone is giving here about fat, sweaty guys, and then some, and yet plenty of chicks attend those.
I’d chalk it up to a lack of interest in the genre/serious play.
Evo, it would be a lot easier to swallow your intelligent comment if it weren’t for your avatar.
A simple gender is a construct, sex is not would have probably summed up that whole conversation.
Gender roles/stereotypes are a creation of society, they extend as far as personality, peoples personalities are conditioned by how they are raised, its basic science.
There is a physical difference between men and women, and a neurological one due to hormones among other things. It’s not a competition or even open to debate.
On the most basic level women have a lower center of gravity on average due to shoulder breadth and wider hips, on a more advanced level women tend to have higher pain tolerance (related to the need to bare a child) and men tend to create higher levels of adrenaline (which can lead to physical aggression, hunter/protector insticts). That is just on average though, I’m sure I’ve got a higher pain tolerance than many women due to conditioning and I know there are angrier, more psyched up women than me.
There are always exceptions to the rule but that doesn’t mean there are not patterns. My mate is fully grown at about 4 feet, he’s obviously not taller than most women even though on average men are. Averages/Medians are calculated through maths and research, there are extremes on either end of the spectrum and that is not what an average represents, nor does it completely invalidate the merits of research or statistics.
Hey don’t knock Mia, she’s a pretty cool chick, I’ve played LoL with her on stream before and was in the same guild as her in WoW for a while before she quit due to a few sexist dickheads.
“What is the root of low female participation in fgc tournies.”
Many are not interested,
Many if not all females aren’t raised with a competitive fighting intlect; it’s all depending on how your brung up. Although I was raised in Bmore & I know / seen plenty of Females that would beat a nigga down if they came at them sideways and have a great fighting aspect / mentality; but would never take a competitive video game seriously because its a “Video Game”.
I know Females like my X who have a great competitive aspect of mind games (Setups, Strategies, Adapting, & Etc.) from playing various card games, board games, & even a few Non-FG video games. However, dont like fighting games because the learning curve of notations, button pressing, & reactions you need to compete / even have fun in some cases. Furthermore the variety of matchups & how differently they can be played.
Lots of females dont want to get into that & or think that level of deepness in a game is unnecessary, too much to take in to even be considerably good at a game, stupid or lack of a better term too nerdy as I heard some girls say in my arcade before.
Furthermore, Female or Male you gotta be dedicated to even compete in a tourney. Females even more so to be surrounded by [S] smelly ni**as[/S] men screaming at the top of there lungs at hype momments. Or having to deal with the thought that some dude might try to holla at you since 95% of Tournies & Arcades are usually sausage fest when there just there to play & compete. I’m sure the peer pressure on a Female in a Tourney or a arcade is more serious then a male. Since its something we dont see everyday and when we do see a female playing its gonna be all eyes on them.
But seriously it all preference, some females like FG’s & much respect to them. However, most dont.
Despite everything I personally said & read in here I would rather hear a respectable opinion of actual Female FG’er on this topic.
