Well, to be fair, I’m trying to keep this thread on topic, thread title-wise. "What is the justification on making games more “casual friendly?” I mean, games need execution. When you just buy a game you can hit up training mode, practice combos, and see yourself improve execution-wise. Lets say you limit every single character to just an easy magic series, special, followed by super. Even if the graphics for each special/super are different it’s still a lack of diversity since all the combos for all the characters are the same and boring, so I probably wouldn’t be motivated to keep playing and exploring other characters. MvC3 adding an exchange as a launcher removed diversity, because it was one of the many things that made each character unique in all of the previous versus games (if you take away enough bricks a house falls apart). Also if you skip combo execution then you are putting a huge emphasis on mind games. New players can easily practice execution, but mind games take years, even decades. If you mess up a combo, you can analyze your mistakes. Did you do an input too early, too late, the speed, etc. Mind games aren’t as easy. New players have no idea what they’re asking for when they think that lowering execution will give them a better chance at beating pros.
Why hello there SRK member who has nothing to contribute aside from insulting others, how was your day?
You know the sad thing here is that Pimp Bishop actually has a good idea here but instead it getting burried under a dude desperate for validation, another guy poping up out of no where after how many pages to call some people idiots and yet add nothing to the conversation and another dude making a stupid natal joke. Good work guys.
Really this more damage for better execution idea is really good. Its been pointed out as working very very well in VF, it rewards taking the time to learn how to do something right by giving you a worthwhile reward but it leaves the door open for those who don’t thinkt hat aspect is worth their time. It really does bring the game closer tot he tennis analogy. Its a wonderful idea its just too bad people are more interested in being witty (you fail by the way) or feeling validated for pointing out one aspect of the idea that wasn’t worded perfectly. Yea SF4 proves move recognition through sloppy input doesn’t work. I guess its a good thing they spent two whole pages saying window of execution is what they where talking about instead.
Second, I’m really all for this VF idea, as I’ve seen it work pretty well in VF5.
But I don’t know if introducing “pro” inputs into a game like Street Fighter will effect situations where the input recognition fucks up.
Like what TonytheTiger said, where if I’m moving forward and then throw a hadoken, and the game registers my forward then hadoken motion as a fail SRK, this can really cost me a match.
All in all, its a really great idea that could help make Street Fighter better for all players, but I couldn’t resist making that stupid joke.
I keep loling at this thread because someone from my school is a professional Tennis player [Pretty sure she’s >1,000 in world ranking]. And I wonder how will she respond if she’d read all of this
So the basically the two camps in favour of “hard inputs” are those who don’t think you should be open for punishment if you mess up VS those who think you should?
this can be avoided by making inputs reasonable in the first place, just because there are weaker versions of moves does not mean they have to correspond to sloppy motions
what defines “reasonable” though? why is it wrong to award someone based on the efficiency of their execution? and why is it wrong to have low-risk execution, low-damage combos in addition to high-risk execution, high damage combos
All i want from a fighting game is if my stick ends in forward and not down-forward and I press a button to get the move that ends with forward, not the one that ends in down-forward. Slowing myself down to compensate for huge windows for dragon punch motions is aggravating.
Adding a sloppy version of a move for bad execution doesn’t alleviate the problems for a game like SFIV and honestly makes it far less nub friendly. Why should I have to practice doing a move perfectly hundreds of times just so it has the desired properties and damage.
Straight-forward and simple is best. Also just have the program check the direction held when the button is actually pressed and boom your good. Nothing else to it.
non you misunderstand, i am referring to the ‘hold fwd, qcf will get a wk srk’ idea. like 24 frames within the input should result in a whiffed normal instead of a weak srk which could be around 12,
basically im agreeing w/ you but reminding that there are limits
I actually prefer these pro motions compared to the Easy Mode feature found in games like MvC and SamSho4.
Easy Mode just doesn’t give new players enough incentive to get better, more damage by doing the motions right might be the draw that keeps em playing.
Easy one or hard one doesn’t in any way address what brought this up. It’s still a yes/no question, you’re just picking a move first-which one is the “hard” one is pretty damn arbitrary anyways, considering the most difficult combos vary from player to player. Which, you know, first off, you already do either way, and second off, I could already play SFIV with only normals if the special moves were too hard and “only get weaker moves”.
I’m all for an analog controlled, physics based fighting game and all, but Virtua Fighter is not that.
Reasonable would probably mean a definite motion for simple moves, which is exactly what VF has that SF4 doesn’t. In VF, you don’t have to spend additional time practicing how to get around the utterly worthless notion of making one input direction also count as the two immediately beside it. That’s the basic problem with the whole deal in SF4, that they added that bullshit instead of just giving SRKs two possible inputs or simply making the SPD a 3/4 circle to begin with.
If they had just given the SRK two inputs (:df::d::df: and regular) then sure. Tekken 6 also has things that are unsafe normally, but safe if you hit the just frame or iWR version, and SF4 has things that could’ve been like that already like Gen’s Gekirou which, as is, is a lot of extra timing for like 20 extra damage – the only reason anyone goes for those additional hits is because it takes a fucking week for Gen to land after the first hit.
In general though, it goes back to what tony was saying, which is that the inputs in SF are basically simple enough as it is. VF, again, in its input system has either two separate inputs for what are, technically, two different moves like with the command throw, or additional timed hits after the initial command special. To have something like a reward for execution with an SRK, you’d need to add those timed hits, like with Seth’s but non-mashable.
Otherwise, to reward the initial SRK input, you’d need the good version for doing it right, and some other version for tarding out and doing god knows what. Problem is, that’s basically what we have already with the lenient inputs. Even if you gave the tard version crappy damage, it still doesn’t solve the problem of people having to work even harder to not get moves they didn’t want, or even put in the inputs for.
Dunno about BB, but in MvC1 EM dosen’t give you Tag super/summon,regular launchers and other things as well. It’s still limited and anyone who would want to get better/do more awesome stuff would have to switch to manual
In other words you’d have to pretty much double or triple the move list. Come up with a handful of the most common ways somebody could flub a command and intentionally make those flubbed commands into crappier versions of the standard special moves. Not even VF does this for every single move. I can only imagine how claustrophobic a 2D control system would feel if Ryu had that many specials. And, again, you’d have to make sure the commands for the flubbed versions don’t interfere with ordinary play. Should charging :db: with Guile be considered a “flubbed” sonic boom or flash kick? If it is that would royally fuck over every single Guile player.
Plus, there’s just something really weird about intentionally putting in worse versions of special moves for flubbed commands. VF does the opposite. They put in certain moves and then make better versions of those moves that are a little harder to do. Here we’re talking about putting in crappier versions that might be easier to do. I have serious reservations with that.