how are you missing all of these posts where i mention that “the amount of frames that a move takes to do/window concerning damage” would be categorized as “timing”. i really cannot make myself any clearer which is unfortunate. also i never claimed that your avatar/username combo made any of your arguments invalid i just pointed it out because they lean me more in the direction of what your posts tell me which is to say im trying to talk to some kind of cartoon character, some kind of two dimensional abstract thing. additonally “therefore” is a buzzword and is not stylistically sound, reconsider using it unless you wanna sound like a ‘big dummy pseudointellectual just got to college guy’
so by this logic the only reason that people accept the exeuciont barrier in tennis is cause theres no way to get rid of it?
I’m not missing it at all. I’m saying that what you originally said was much broader than that and now you’re backpedaling trying to shrink it into something like a just frame move system. A just frame system works fine. But I just showed you why what you originally said would cause problems.
And “therefore” is a word that suggests a conclusion follows a premise. It’s perfectly valid. Are we arguing diction now? :rolleyes:
So are you saying that for in order for it to be a game and not a sport, it must have as little execution as possible? Tennis and Street Fighter are both games with execution requirements. Humans have varied hand eye coordination, muscle reaction, etc. Whether we play the game Tennis or the game Street Fighter, we still practice to step up our execution. It is a learning experience.
We start of with another ad hominem.
Are you saying timing has nothing to do with performance/execution now? Please let me know what it is that you do not understand so I can teach you.
From my 6th grade logic class:
what i originally said was not broad. i mentioned a system in which damage would be increased when a move was done faster within the move’s input window. how this is not categorized as timing is beyond me
Not entirely. But I am saying it’s a fundamental part of the sport… or any sport for that matter, and couldn’t be removed even if people wanted it to, while execution barriers in video games exist because someone feels the game will be better provided that they exist… Of course, rather than explaining WHY the game is better with execution barriers, you’re making all these odd analogies to things that aren’t related to video games.
Actually the most comparable thing in video gaming to the athleticism required to play tennis is… the effort required to push a button, or hold your controller, or perform the most basic of moves. A better analogy would be asking yourself if Tennis would be a better sport if we shackled the player’s feet or tied them to a ball and chain.
No, I merely said that the analogy is bad because sports have an execution barrier simply by nature of what they are. While video games have execution barriers like this presumably to make the game more interesting to play, but is not an intrinsic requirement for the product to exist.
So rather than draw odd analogies between Tennis and Street Fighter… why not go over why you feel the execution barrier improves the quality of the game.
For it to be an ad hominem I’d have to be positing it as a replacement for an argument against what you guys are saying. I’m clearly not doing that since I’m providing ample arguments.
And this is why I say you’re clowns. Because you can’t seem to understand this:
1) About timing:
pimp bishop donjon argued that “bad” execution could result in worse versions of special moves. Timing is ONE aspect of execution but he NEVER said he was talking about timing. He was talking about actual performance. But actual performance problems, like adding in wrong directions or missing necessary ones cannot be used to result in “bad” special moves since during ordinary play you would get crappy versions of shoryukens when you just tried moving around the damn screen and shoot a fireball! The game would think you were trying to do a shoryuken and just fucked it up!
I’ll try to make it simpler.
pimp bishop donjon said “execution” should factor in. Poor execution would result in worse special moves. Timing is ONE part of execution but he did not originally limit it to timing or frame requirements. And only now did he try to shrink the scope of his argument to timing because that’s the only thing that works. He argued something too broad and then got pissed when I called him on it.
I’m not crazy. That has nothing to do with timing. That’s directional precision you’re talking about there. You can retract that part if you want but don’t pretend it wasn’t there.
Oh, I get it now. You just didn’t understand what he meant.
Well, now you know.
Playing some fighting games helps to understand what people are talking about when they’re talking about fighting games.
Also, why are you dodging VirtuaFighterFour’s posts?
the part you bolded in that post is the exact fucking opposite part from what i’m trying to get you to read you big idiot
I didn’t understand what he meant? Read my post above and tell me he didn’t say input precision in addition to timing. The timing part works. The input precision does not. But he’s trying to act like he never said that part and it was always just about timing. I don’t know how to respond to that kind of denial.
And I’m not ignoring them. They’re just not really pertaining to what I’m talking about right now. pimp bishop donjon trying to pretend he didn’t posit a broader argument than he’s trying to defend right now.
Ah, I’m an idiot for challenging you on something you yourself said.
Ok, I’ll make it simple. The first part of what you said can work. The bolded part absolutely can NOT work. Do not pretend like it’s not there.
tennis would be unequivocally better if this were the case
lmao
so get this guys, he finally agrees that what i was saying about frames and “timing”, could in fact work. i’ve got the seal of approval. now i just need to convince him that there really are people that can input a special command without doing a bunch of other directions and buttons [via smashing the controller like a retard]
There is a broader argument, reading the thread title might help you understand what it is. He is arguing against what is known as “dumbing down games for casuals.” He is attempting to break down this large argument into smaller pieces such that people such as yourself would be capable of understanding the issue. This issue is much easier to understand if you aren’t new to fighting games. I have witnessed first hand the evolution of gaming since the Atari, so his argument is extremely easy to understand due to my experience.
You know, your complete lack of beginner fighting game fundamentals and your persistence to insult other members and complete refusal of attempt to understand their posts in order to intentionally play the straw man has led me to believe that you’re an 09er or 10er.
checks join date
09er confirmed, adding to ignore list.
good idea eldergod honestly i forget there is an ignore feature. it’s also too bad about no more userids (rip userids). such a rude fucking tiger, cya
Yeesh.
I’ll try again.
**
- About timing:**
pimp bishop donjon argued that “bad” execution could result in worse versions of special moves. Timing is ONE aspect of execution but he NEVER said he was talking about timing. He was talking about actual performance. But actual performance problems, like adding in wrong directions or missing necessary ones cannot be used to result in “bad” special moves since during ordinary play you would get crappy versions of shoryukens when you just tried moving around the damn screen and shoot a fireball! The game would think you were trying to do a shoryuken and just fucked it up!
But, go ahead. Act like I’m the idiot if it helps you sleep at night.
You’re missing the point. I speak for myself and I am not acting as if you’re an idiot, you are merely someone who does not understand what pimp bishop is talking about and your refusal to take in everything he has said in order to understand what his stance is has led me to believe that you’re just playing the straw man.
His explanation may not be perfect, but humans aren’t perfect. It’s easy to find contradictions, just because you yourself have made contradictions does that mean that everything you have to say is invalid and that I should ignore all of your points? No. You’re a human being, and as a fellow human being who isn’t a dick I try my best to actually read what the other person types, unlike you, in order to gain an understanding of what everyone is trying to say.
Pimp bishop is arguing against dumbing down games for casuals. If you actually read his posts, you will know what he means by execution and you wouldn’t be confused as to how timing relates.
I’m not expecting him to be perfect. I just expected him to own up to the complete statement of his. He basically argued that BOTH timing and input precision could be taken into account as far as special moves are concerned. I never once said that TIMING couldn’t be a factor. Just frame moves do it all the time. What I have been saying the entire time is that when he said input precision could matter (like accidentally adding in extra motions to a shoryuken resulting in a crappier shoryuken) that would cause serious problems because the game would end up interpreting the basic flow of gameplay (ala walk forward to hadoken) as a flubbed shoryuken and then your attempted walk forward + hadoken instead results in a bad shoryuken.
The problem I kept having with him was that he was acting like he never said the second part when I challenged him on it. They’re two completely different issues. But whenever I tried to argue against the part that related to input precision he (and you) kept acting as if I was saying TIMING couldn’t be a factor. They’re separate.
all 3 of you are idiots…
in before lock
It’s late. What else is there to do other than argue on the internet and watch The Nanny on Nick At Nite? Besides, the thread is still technically on topic. We’re talking about input requirements for fighting games. And given Rule 25 I’d say we’re doing surprisingly well for a 20 page thread.