how in the world is there no equivalency are you insane
SSF4 main: Random button
Secondaries: Ibuki, Hawk, Adon, Gouken… actually everyone but Ken/ryu/blanka.
MvC3: Dante, Redfield, ??
Here look at it this way for someone who is brand new to tennis and fighting games.
I can hold a racket - Check
I can move my feets - Check
I can swing the racket - Check
Cool, now I’m off to learn how to use these things effectively during a tennis match.
I can hit my buttons for normals - Check
I can move my character around - Check
I can do a fireball on demand - FUCK
This argument might have some merit if there was such a thing as a “good Shoryuken” and a “bad Shoryuken” instead of just “a Shoryuken” and “punching the air like a fucking retard”
Execution in fighting games is an on/off switch. It either happens or it doesn’t. There is always a finite limit to it. Sports like tennis and golf are interesting on an execution level because you’re watching to see just how hard and just how accurately someone can hit the ball under varying circumstances. In a given scenario a tennis player doesn’t either make the shot or fail completely, it’s possible for them to get their racquet on the ball but not hit it in the direction they want but still on the playing surface, or not get the power they want but still get it across the net. They’re making decisions as to how to use their body to best hit the ball given the current circumstances.
Doing a combo has none of that. Picking a combo does, but executing it is just a 1 or a 0 aside from nerves. Once you land the first hit it’s just a matter of repetition. Daigo doesn’t have a better DP FADC Ultra than Valle like a tennis player has a better backswing.
d o n.tt d i
That’s the best counterargument right there.
okay so what if there were frame ranges wherre the faster you did the shoryuken the more damage it does and also if more inputs than the f,d,df+p are put in they subtract damage from the shoryuken. there, you can see just how hard and just how accurately someone can shoryuken. what is the counterargument to that
i mean honestly it’s not too crazy of an idea and actually i like it a lot. i think it would be maybe a good solution to something like sf4’s retarded inputs? let people do the move and be shitty at it and give them a little bit of damage but if they want to get good at the command then they’ll do more damage?
it’s not even that unheardof considering something like how the inputs work for shoryukens and whatever in ST
That might just end up being a shitty game then. Or at least just not well received. I tend to think most players like more certainty with their video games. They don’t like too many variables they can’t control. It goes back to the concept of the “cheap” death. It feels…well…cheap. It’s why the Smash Bros. community is so hell bent on eliminating every bit of randomness that comes with item drops even though there’s nothing necessarily wrong with some randomness in a game, poker for instance.
are you extremely dense or something? they would be able to control it by - get this - executing the move with a high degree of efficiency! and it is not like executing it like a shithead would make the move function differently either, just do less damage
You can play the fencing in Wii Sports Resort to see just what something like that would be like. It won’t be well received in a fighting game. So don’t go around calling people dense just because you can’t see that you’re pulling random sports analogies out of the air and expecting to be applauded like it’s some brilliant revelation.
yeah because an inaccurate piece of shit wii controller gives players the same capacity for accuracy that a nice stick does. i am not trying to make some ‘brilliant revelation’ considering my example is extremely simple
The WiiMotion Plus is actually pretty accurate all things considered…
And who’s to say that “more accurate” is even possible to that extent on a stick? You only have eight directions to play with. We’ve been hitting hadokens pretty tightly for years. How the hell do you even incorporate “worse” performance in to something that’s just three consecutive directions? You accidentally add an :u: into a :qcf: motion? I’m sure people would absolutely love getting a weak hadoken when all they want to do is perform a normal one after a jump.
uhh obviously a lot of people can do it “worse” considering how much the windows for executing moves were widened in alpha, versus games, sf3 series, sf4 series granted not all of those games have easy execution but it is kind of telling that they changed it to be so much more lenient. if everyone was able to do it “pretty tightly” why would it be changed at all after ST?
This is what I was TRYING to say, phrased a million times better.
Well, considering we started off comparing how SF actually plays to how tennis actually plays and how they are not at all comparable, I’d have to say the counterargument is that none of that shit is in the game and therefore does not apply to the argument. If it did, sure, the two might be slightly more comparable. As it is currently, they are not.
read up on this page i shot that post down with a cool idea
Virtua Fighter has moves that are easier to do and yield less damage that have harder to execute counterparts that yield more damage. And VF has combos that are tailored for easier execution and lower damage output as well. If you want to use the best moves and perform the best combos in VF you must work on your execution. That being said there are moves and combos that are available for beginning users to help ease the gap between beginner, intermediate, and expert levels of play.
An example is Wolf’'s giant swing command throw. There are two versions of the throw, the first is HCF+p+g, the second is also HCF+p+g but you can’t waste any frames with the inputs. The second version is known as ‘fastest’ giant swing and it does more damage. If you waste a frame inputting the giant swing throw then you will get the lesser damage version. If perform the throw perfectly, as fast as possible, then you’ll get the higher damage version. This rewards better players while not creating a giant gap between top and beginning players.
Kage’s dragon punch in VF is another example. The easy version is f,d,df+p+k,k and does 57 damage. It’s two hits and the second hit has a large input window and is easy to execute. The harder version is f,d,df+p+k,p,k,k and has more hits (four total) and does more damage. The second, and harder dragon punch, has the first hit followed by a three, then two, then another two frame link. Trying to time a dragon punch motion, then a three frame link and a pair of two frame links all in a row is very tough but you get more damage as a reward for your superior execution.
oh holy shit how did i forget about that stuff, probably because i’ve only been messing around with VF for like 2 weeks or something but still yeah that is a perfect example.
You do know that the leniency actually makes getting the right moves out harder, right? If SFIV had tighter input requirements people wouldn’t get Bison’s teleport when attempting to do his ultra. If you incorporated “bad” versions of special moves into the system that would just make things worse. Now when you’re trying to do walk forward, hadoken you’ll still get a shoryuken except now it’ll be a shitty one. How the hell would you even be able to walk forward and :qcf: without getting a “bad” shoryuken if what you’re suggesting were actually implemented?
No it’s not, because the VF examples aren’t “mistakes” in execution that result in worse or better versions. It’s the same exact motion just done with different timing.
you do realize that you can make it a little bit more lenient (for example say 3rd strike’s input windows) without turning the game upside down and ruining the inputs (sf4 hello) right
That doesn’t even remotely address what I just wrote.