Q-bert made be cuss a lot
Your avatar makes me want to do things. Where is it from?
Fighting games aren’t athletic events.
On that whole… “new games are easy, old games are hard” derail thing… If a game’s only hard because it’s stupid, does it really matter? I mean… would a “modern” hard game like XBOX/PS2 Ninja Gaiden be a better game if they removed the save stations and forced you to start a new game after a few deaths?
An exaggeration. Really? You took a forum post at face value? Someone saying his friends had problems with QCFs? You should look for a job in the federal government.
Nemo wouldn’t cause shit besides a new revenue stream from being a VC game and a new appreciation for the awesomeness that is the Little Nemo title screen theme. People like you love to pretend like we were some superhuman wunderkind back in the day, when really we just had nothing better to do but deal with videogame bullshit.
But of course, now that were TOALLY GRAWN AUP we forget that kids, you know, exist, or that we were ever one of them, and we instead pull out the fucktarded euphamism of “casual gamer” in its place. So you know what? A) I want more stupid fun kid shit instead of pretentious wank like Assassin’s Creed and Gears of War and B) Guess what we got through Little Nemo because we had fucking Nintendo Power detailing the levels anyway.
No, he isn’t.
So, let’s run through this. You were at e3! This means
A) You were part of a completely worthless gaming media that knows nothing about games
B) You were employed by a developer that doesn’t know anything about games
C) You were employed by a publisher that sure as SHIT doesn’t know anything about games
D) You were there for no discernible reason whatsoever and don’t know anything about games
Try me, fuckass. I’d love to go over the general aptitude of game developers in an industry where the legitimacy of indie games is still determined, by people on the indie side, purely on sales and the “game colleges” are basically just vocational grindmills churning out young, dumb, and full of cum greenhorns who have the youthful stupidity and energy to jeopardize the jobs of experienced programmers who’ve learned firsthand how little the gaming industry, collectively, knows about making games.
I’ve talked to devs. Most of them are fucking morons. They work in the gaming industry because it’s easier than getting a programming job in an industry that actually has standards.
Challenge due to ineptitude of the programmers is still challenge nonetheless.
It’s funny that these days, challenge is actually a “feature” of certain games…as in, the game is specifically marketed as being “hardcore” in difficulty. Like with that fucking muppet Itagaki and “dog mode” being for players not worthy enough to play his real game.
My point being that certain games have to go out of their way to let you know that they are hard, whereas in the old days the devs is was just part of the process, even in games that you wouldn’t expect to be difficult as with most high-profile licensed games from that era like TMNT and the Bart Simpson games.
Right, I’m not arguing that. The question is whether or not a challenge born of
I can’t say I see much of that, if anything games get blasted more than praised for overt difficulty… But um… there definitely was gradation in difficulty back then. Certainly there’s probably a larger range of high profile, easier games today… But a huge part of that is what I mentioned in the post you were quoting, mechanics that add nothing but difficulty for the sake of difficulty and utter ineptitude in basic design are less prevalent, at least in big titles.
MY thoughts on making Street Fighter more casual friendly: It doesn’t work. Casual players do not notice any attempts by Capcom to make things easier for them. I’ll use my local scene as an example.
I host Street Fighter tournaments every now and then. A fair amount of people around know about this and always talk about how they want to learn to play SF competitively. I play these people casually every week. However, every time it’s crunch and We’ve got an event happening at maybe the end of the week. By the Wednesday before people start to chicken out. They just flat out say that they don’t want to look bad because these games look too hard to learn. This is understandable right? You don’t want to be embarrassed at a tournaments. OK But some of these guys are afraid to show at designated CASUAL events (they will still say “Oh no, Im not good at that game!”).
This applies especially to local Smash players. The most serious Smash players around here will be there and even maybe help out with a Smash event but when it comes to SF they are just simply intimidated (hell we usually only get like 8 -12 high level players out of about 40 players anyway since we’ve only just started planning events 2 yrs ago). These people play Street Fighters casually but the thought of playing competent players just scare them away from competing.
you guys sure have some pretty biased views
remember, you can’t see clearly if you don’t open your eyes
No word about SoR3 US? That game was hard as fuck. The most I managed with a friend was end of level 4, but I finished it only in the Japanese version which is much easy [And now… It’s the opposite really]
The issue is time. A 30 minute long NES game or bullet hell shooter that’s bitch hard because you have to finish it within 3 lives has the luxury of doing that to the player because the actual time investment is relatively low. Sure, you’re playing the same level over and over again but there are only six of them. The total time investment to finally beat the game may be something like 10-15 hours over the course of a week or two.
You can’t really do that to a player in modern games which at minimum take about 10 hours even if you know what you’re doing. If people are already willing to invest 10+ hours in a game it’s not fair to make them double or triple that. They’ll do one of two things.
- They’ll either have the time to kill and begrudgingly put up with it.
- They’ll have more important shit to do and quit.
There’s a certain brand of difficulty that’s just a waste of time. It’s like those quirky Japanese RPGs that make you create your own weapons but only give you a 5% chance of success on each attempt. It can be done with enough trial and error but it requires a lot of time, the most valuable resource in the world. If there’s one golden rule of game design it is to have respect for your player’s time. That’s why fetch quests in RPGs get lambasted. It doesn’t matter if they’re piss easy to do. They just made the game 10 hours longer than it needed to be and I got nothing out of it in return.
And even so, many games still at least offer the option for that kind of headache. Mass Effect 2’s hardest difficulty is pretty much a “get shot twice and die” mode. Anybody can do it if they put in the time. But how much time is the average person willing to invest in a single game?
That’s the crux of the Street Fighter issue. How much time is a person willing to invest in learning how to play? I don’t mean learning how to be good but merely learning how to do the things they want to see happen on screen. If they want to jump, how long does it take them to learn to routinely perform that action. If they want to do a hadoken, how long does it take them to learn to routinely perform that action. Super Turbo is not anything near “hard” in that sense. It’s arguably easier than SFIV because in SFIV people routinely get the wrong moves due to the input leniency.
yet really 90% can be beaten unless proven other wise. Though no one is going to list the 90% of the nes games since it would take for ever. Even games like castlevaina 3, battletoads, are almost impossible they still can be beaten
neither is tennis. it’s just a game that happens to have stupid conventions like “physical training” and “did you get some good genetics” tied into its gameplay as well as a dumb singleplayer mode you need to grind in so you can get to the real game. what if someone had an exquisite understanding of tennis, but they lost their legs in an accident? youre saying you dont think they deserve to win? roger federer gets into an accident and loses his legs, he should be able to play
also fwiw transhyumanism is pretty cool and i would turn myself into a hellish robot if i could. look out for me at tennis tournies in the future yall
edit: caim i just read your post, fucking rock on
You say this sarcastically, but in reality you’re exactly right. Tennis is a poorly designed game for these exact reasons.
However, I’m pretty sure it’s not the game design that people play the game for.
well im not being extremely sarcastic but i mean a part of every game is that “visceral satisfaction” you get from whatever kind of execution it has. pressing qcf+p, design discussion aside, feels a lot more satisfying to do than f+p
well i mean i am being sarcastic but still, just listen to me
The real reason we have :qcf:+p is because Capcom set that standard years ago because they needed to maximize the value of a limited number of buttons. Since it worked so well nobody had the balls to challenge it except a very slight deviation by MK with it’s tap-tap :l::l:, :r::r:, and :l::r: moves.
Remember that early Street Fighter 1 cabs had little punching pads. We might still be using that shit had they not been abandoned due to being so fragile. If it held as the standard then instead of seeing conversations about straight vs. curved button layouts on custom sticks we might be seeing conversations about punch pad size. Or maybe we’d be using the double stick style of Karate Champ had Capcom used it for Street Fighter II.
But since buttons was the interface of choice, the alternative to qcf motions would have been a 20 button game assuming they wanted all the same moves available. That would have made the game even more complicated. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with f+p for a special move. There is a problem with it, though, when f+p needs to be a throw or some other move. Assuming six buttons is the absolute max people will tolerate (which I think it pretty much is) you have to make due if you want a robust move list. And since Capcom was the pioneer, they got to set the standard. So :qcf:+p it is.
okay so what youre saying is their intention when they designed qcf changes the actual function behind it? idgi…
I’m saying that the input system was probably the result of necessity rather than intentional design. If you’re only going to have a couple of buttons, and each of the functions is already taken for normal moves, then what do you do if you want a special move? You don’t have a choice. You have to use directional commands in conjunction with the buttons or simultaneous button presses if you want to get the most out of the interface.
The move properties were probably adjusted from there to balance them with the input requirements. That’s why sonic booms have such quick recovery. Because they have to be charged. If you had one button sonic booms you’d have to change the fundamentals of the attack to make it fair. If hadokens required charge then they’d probably have to be made better.
tony we just dont see eye to eye
I’m having trouble seeing what you’re even trying to say. I think everybody is. 