OK thanks for clearing that up, I’ll agree with you on the Robert part, though they could’ve at least hot made his Kick super so lame ><. As for Yashiro, sorry man, but to me 97 Yashiro will always be the best Yashiro ever (and it’s not cuz of his 40% damage BnB; Jumping C/D–>Standing C–>HCB+C), but his HCB+P and QCB, HCB+P super that made me feel like he was the coolest character in that game (along with Ralf & Beni of course), but damn when they changed the animation…I felt like they screwed him up in a way. ><
Thanks again for clearing things :tup:
To end this silly discussion.
Tiers are based on CONSISTENT tournament results.
Not theory. because theory is not objective and concrete, it’s subjective and opinion based on the hypothetical.
Otherwise(using a cvs2 example): P-groove > everything else. that’s not the case and everybody knows that.
If there are consistent high level Mexico tourney results of Choi constantly losing to every character and kim and angel winning tournaments then Choi’s not top tier in Mexico and Kim and Angel are, there.
Now it’s all about if those Choi players are using/not using Choi to his highest potential in comparison, or if those other characters potential are just better right now(oh yes that happens! tiers DO change.). Either way if he’s consistently losing then he’s not top tier in Mexico. Choi moved down.
how hard is that for everybody to understand?
96 iori is broken but very beatable 96 chin clark ralf now that is a broken team all of those can fuck iori easy not to mention krauser ryo and kasumi, oh 96 the memorys 
so many skanks but so fun
For me 98 was so good, because it was easy to get into back in the days and I got all my fav Chars (Terry with 2 forms, also Ryo had 2, we got a finally decent Andy, Blue Mary was still great etc.) except Geese and of course Krauser. The Engine was like 97 but with less slowdowns, faster meter build, some new graphic effects etc. Even if grappler like Goro and O.Yashiro dominated, there was a wide range of chars in the top tier and upper mid. The background and music quality was very good and everything just seemed to fit nice together unlike other KOF’s. In this KOF were no Striker, autoguard was in his prime IMHO and other small things, which just dropped my interest in other post or pre 98 KOF’s. Well 2002 was good engine wise, thx to a new max combosystem, which added some depth into the classic basic system. But not everyone had a use for this subsystem, like Ryo, and 2002 lacked also in bg and bgm quality IMHO (this things are always personal) and besides a good Andy every of my fav chars got nerfed. Plus, I never liked K’, Whip, Ramon and most of the newer Designs, but they were in the game and took memory which could be used otherwise in the game. At least, that’s the way I think about it. Having chars like I want them is pretty important to me, so don’t flame me on this opinion. 2002 also got a slower meter build then 98 and well, I always love to get meter fast (like in SFA2, or V bars in SFA3). In the end I liked them both and played the hell outta them back in the days.
just my few cents
You officially do not know what the fuck you’re talking about. Good day.
bc gave ryo combo options off an overhead, and andy was a generally good character.
Other than unblockable fireballs and Daimon glitches, what exploitable glitches are there in 98?
man, unblockable fireballs isn’t even a problem in 98. Neither is daimon’s wakeup tremor. I mean he’s had wakeup tremor in every KOF incarnation. It makes him good, but it’s not busted by any means. Look at MVC2, glitches make games awesome.
dude i saw osama bin laden match vids he said seth,vice,and evil shermie were toptier!!! :amazed:
kof tiers-
camel god tier
middle east
taco tier-
mexico and the usa boarder
stinky sushi tier-
japan.korean,& china
in what kofs can you duck iori combo grab?
he never had the ground smash bug in 94 95 and 96 and 2003 i think
As for not knowing what i’m talking about how long have you been playing 96? if you’ve been playing since the start you’d know chin clark ralf are easyly as good as iori and any 96 veteran would tell you the same
What’s regions have to do with 98 being good? Explain.
2k2 had a great idea with the new tweeks to the max mode(move cancels and such), but this just made the game easier. Playmore focuses more on groove fusion tactics that just has more minuses than pluses to the gameplay. They threw crap in togethher, making the fights rely on your use of system more times than your use of character’s move list, normals and everything else in the fight along with the system.
98 was different because you had to know what the hell you were doing. Besides that, cosmetically 98 > 2k2
How can you get somewhere in kof2k2 without knowing what you’re doing? Sure, you can know some 100% combos in kof2k2, that waste all your stock…you’ll kill off one character assuming you can land that combo, then what?
I agree, which is why I don’t consider them remotely cheap, they aren’t overpowered at all, just occasionally useful. But I meant “exploitable” in the sense of “useful in a real match”, because I have played a LOT of KOF '98 and I can’t figure out what bugs emil is talking about that are so exploitable in real world play. Anybody?
So if a o.shermie player beats abc she is top tier in 2002? Awesome.
And what exploitable bugs are you talking about in 98?
Btw i think there is a korean site with high level kof play called battlepage don’t remember the link but it found the link at video-opera. If it’s still up check the link archive.
Occasionallly useful? With Athena, if you land one hcf+P, you have a free unblockable fireball and if done right, another combo. If you roll the fireball, and Athena teleported, Athena has a free combo…only way out of that doing invincible moves, assuming you have some (and assuming it is worth the risk of whiffing that invincible move just to evade the fireball).
The unblockable fireball bug is a problem because it usually forces opponents to roll in order to avoid it…and you can create setups that will punish them badly if they roll the fireball
The Heidern whiff charge down up+A bug is kind of stupid…if you whiff it, the next life steailng move does almost double damage and this includes the DM one. I believe he also gets back more life but I’m not sure.
You didn’t really read the posts…
I’ve been glitched into a DM combo before, so it’s obviously useful. Emil stated something about an infinite as well. Actually, many 98 players online use the glitch- mostly with Athena, Takuma, and Iori (like Iori needs anything else). I’ve done the Athena teleport glitch by mistake occasionally (I sometimes follow up a psycho ball with a teleport to get in closer in the grabs she has a command grab).
The bug (which I ban in the games I host), is very useful.
Still, if what Emil says is true about Mexico (which judging from vids, it is) then the real tier list doesn’t have Choi at #1. That being said, it is possible playstyles come into consideration- Koreans, Japanese, and Mexican do tend to play differently- just like Japanese and US in 3S, but to a wider degree- Japanese use fewer wakeups for example. However, Choi is still programmed the same everywhere worldwide, so everything has to be taken into consideration.
I rate Vanessa, Iori, and Kim above Billy for example.
Ex kyo has an infinite but that has already been mentioned.
I agree with you. Emil says that Mexico has these crazy players who exploits the glaring bugs '98 has, which is funny, 'cuz I played in Mexico for over 10 years, and I NEVER saw these bugs being “game breaking” by any means. Athena has an unblockable FB glitch? That becomes more of a “weapon” for her than “game breaking” per say. And who cares about the Heidern glitch? That doesn’t make him any more played than before. Heidern still belongs in the vast mid-tier anyway. Hell, even Daimon’s bug is stretching it, since I RARELY see it being performed in comeptitive play (maybe because Daimon is already too much of a beast without it).
I would fear being hit once and die from a MAX combo in KOF 2002 than ANY of the '98 bugs, to be perfectly honest.
And I find it hilarious how he says “Choi dies to everyone in Mexico at KOF 2002, so he’s not top tier!”. That’s because whenever someone finds an exploit in some character in Mexico you will find 200+ players jumping on the bandwagon. Maybe Choi doesn’t suit their gameplay needs…doesn’t mean Choi is not a beast. Mexico is a KOF grappler country, anyways…
And to that extent, if Mexico is to determine anything in competitive play, everytime I wanna find some decent challenge in MvC 2, all I get is the same batch of Spidey/Wolvie players from past Marvel games. Does that mean Spider and Wolvie belong in the top tier? :rolleyes:
Or it means the MvC2 is mostly an American game, and mexico doesn’t care about it.
The big reason I prefer 98 to 02 is diversity. There are two components to the quality of a fighting game:
-
Balance- how many characters are really playable in high-level compeition. Both 98 and 02 score well on that regard. THe last 98 tourney I saw the final 16 of- I saw 12 characters played (Kyo, Chizuru, Iori, Brian, Chang, Takuma, Chris, Leona, O.Yashiro, Mai, Yamazaki, Choi)- I may have left some out. 2k2 does well in this regard, XI from what I’ve seen doesn’t.
-
Diversity- how many different styles you see in the gameplay- 98 the characters feel a lot more different then they do in 2k2- where the system trumps diversity some, and in XI it really feels like everyone plays the same- like it’s a Marvel game without depth.
Again, some of this is opinion- but I’ve played enough of 98 and 02 to draw my own conclusions on this.
Dude, did you read? Nowhere in my post did I say anything about Mexicans using glitches. In fact, I never said anything about Mexicans playing kof98. The topic about Mexicans was totally unrelated to whether kof98 > 2k2. And the Daimon bug is widely used in competitive play, since many Daimon users use the df+C for anti-air, which the bug can be used with.
I actually didn’t say Choi dies to everyone in Mexico, nor did I say that he isn’t top tier in general, just not top tier in Mexico. How is Mexico a grappler country? Mexico is dominated by Angel, May Lee, Kim, Kula, Iori, Whip and some others, there aren’t many grapplers used besides Ramon.
There is one thing about 98 I don’t like, the risk/reward. Because of the fact that the combos in kof98 are not that damaging, you can take alot of dumb risks and not be THAT punished for it if you happen to guess wrong. This is not true in 2k2.