Well, I meant KOF '98 in that aspect. Everybody picks grapplers in that game.
So you mean you like games where players completely devastate other people with massive combos? I guess you like the Versus games by that token, huh?
Why only point out the versus series?
What about ST where if you do dumb stuff you get punished for big damage?
And ST is a great game, everyone knows that.
No I donāt like versus games, because the big combos in those games donāt waste much stock, if any (that and other reasons that are irrelevant here). You exaggerate the massive comboness of kof2k2 anyway. Point is, if the opponent has stock, they can punish you really bad in kof2k2, and this is rarely the case in kof98. Thus, the risk/reward is different in those games. kof98 encourages MORE risk taking due to the weaker punishing combos. A scrub that spams random shit in kof98 would have a greater chance of winning against a good player, than that same person doing the same shit in kof2k2.
Edit: Why do people hate kof2000 so muchā¦besides grapplers having 100% striker combos.
If you state dumb risks donāt get punished that bad, it means that the gameās risk/reward structure is geared more towards mindgames then jab into 90% rape combo. Again, thatās the stuff that leads to lower diversity- in 98, you can get away with more, so people use a wider variety of characters. There are some large damage combos in 98 though- no 100%'s like 2k2, but still some 60-70% combos.
IF you really think a scrub spamming random shit wins in either game- I think they can do a lot better using 2k2 Athena randomly then 98 Iori.
Basically what you think makes a game good, turns it for the rest of it into a turtlefest- why take risks at all if anything gets turned into a megadamage combo- it makes the game boring. Also a good player doesnāt go for combos, he lets them fit into his flow, instead of trying to force it.
this has turned into a such a stupid ass debateā¦
Exactly, why would you take risks without knowing the outcome, especially when this risk would get you punished so badly? It doesnāt make sense. From the way I see you play, you constantly gamble. You seem to think āwill I do a risky wakeup super that will get me killed or will I not?ā is an effective mindgame. Seriously, how does a player improve their game if it centers so much around random risks? The fact that you even think about taking such risks is why the game would degenerate into a turtlefest, since the opponent would then just keep waiting for you to do something risky to counter you. I donāt see what the point is of even playing, if you have that luck mindset.
waiting for Saotome to come and threaten to close it. Yet, I welcome it lol.
Well, if I do enough random wakeups, and you do the same thing every time- Iāve taken your wakeup game out, and I donāt have to wakeup anymore. A lot of what I do depends on the particular opponent- versus some people I never wakeup- a lot of stuff is matchup dependent. Also, if you have very little life left, a wakeup isnāt as bad- that 90% combo doesnāt do 90% on someone who has less life. Of course, if someone just punishes it every time, you donāt do it.
There is more to fighters then just execution of combos and priorities.
All mindgames are in the end is glorified paper-rock-scissors with probabilities and expected values added.
I guess this theory is too advanced for the top kof players in the world, since they never do wakeups and other risky moves. I guess they were too stupid to figure it out.
Theoretically it makes senseā¦but there are obviously more effective ways of playing than doing dumb things in order to scare the opponent into not attacking.
So if top players donāt do that, then how do Mexicans deal with Choi? Either the Mexicans arenāt really top players- or youāve contradicted yourself.
Also Daigo does occasional random wakeups as well, and Iām sure heād be a top player in KOF is he actually played it. Most top tier SF players will wakeup about 10-20% of the time to keep people honest- depending on game and how powerful combos are- the more easy high damage combos are, the more conservative youāll see top players.
Bah, that thing for Ryo is in generel meter waste. I also said that Andy was good and the only one of my favs in a better version then 98. 
it depends not on tiers but on players ability
for me even if choi is top tier i canāt use him 'cause i canāt deal with his high mobility and air runaway i prefer some solid footsie character as terry or yashiro even if theyāre not top tiers
but this do not change the fact that choi>>>terry+yashiro
in the way heās programmed
in 98 it can give a consistent boost only to athena due to the infinite
for the others is only additional damage
QFT
xi is pretty unbalanced due to the KGO team a safe turtle a cheapass and a bugass that are so far from the rest of the cast when from A to E tier you wonāt have so much difference
without those 3 the game can be very well balanced
in 2k2 if you can use max mode in a decent manner everyone if have the chance can land an high damaging combo
in 2k2 you have to focus on landing your BC so you have to mixup till death to find an opening and go for pressure itās a bit more risky than in 98 where you can play pretty safe
in xi is all about rushdown but i canāt say that every chara has to be played in the same mannerā¦ash canāt play rushdown as gato and have to switch for zoning for a quick example
playing at a serious/decent level for both players they already know that if they attack consistently on wakeups or release random dp or dm they have a good chance to be predicted and eat a dangerous stuff
especially in 2k2 where a bc combo can take away a 90% of your lifebar
maybe a very good dp as ryoās can scare your foe from being too near during your wakeup
doing stuffs during your wakeup is too dangerous 'cause you have only few (2-3 i think) options, try a throw or grapple using a dp motion or releasing any DM
and all of the three can be avoided by jumping straight or going for a crossup
crossup is the easiest thing to do in that situation 'cause they canāt be easily avoided and is the most common thing you can see during a match
Yes in 98ā¦but not XIā¦we need to make sure people understand thisā¦
I would love to jump into this debate this is awesomeā¦but Iām at workā¦I will jump into it on the weekend though.
Check that prime list- Hinako could be 2001 as her bestā¦
And yes Krauser in 96ā¦Geese with the infinite, good shit indeed!
96 Iori certainly is beatable. 96 Iori may be the most broken correct, with 2k1 Foxy right behind.
What exactly can 2K1 Foxy Do?
oh cāmon just talk of playable gamesā¦
until kof98 no other kofs are playable seriouslyā¦from 97 on the start balancing games for serious vs
so not geese infinite or ioriās one
In 98, the majority of the characters had certain weaknesses. There was no perfect character. You canāt tell me that Chris, Choi, hell even O. Yashiro was unstoppable. No one had a perfect advantage. Unlike 02 where most Robert players I see spam fireballs to the Genei Kyaku for the ones that roll.
And about NeoWave, Iād take Young Geese over his 2002 and 96 self.
I could post NeoWave tweaks etc on the 2k2 engineā¦
wtf, Robert is pretty bad in kof2k2. You pretty much never see him used in any high level gameplay. The fireball spam is only good if the player gets desperate and just blindly rolls/jumps the fireballs, which will allow Robert to counter. I donāt know how you can possibly say that Robert is unstoppable in kof2k2.
Where can I find those high level 2k2 mexican vids? Iām interested in seeing how do they play.
http://www.cmvarchives.com/abrahamvsesteban1.mov
http://www.cmvarchives.com/abrahamvsesteban5.mov
http://www.cmvarchives.com/abrahamvsesteban2.mov
http://www.cmvarchives.com/abrahamvsesteban3.mov
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3279131&postcount=129
http://www.badongo.net/vid/107701/1
http://www.badongo.net/vid/107704/1