Top tier where? As I’ve said before, I’d probably say Mexico > Japan in kof (you’d have to watch tournaments from both places to see). In Mexico, Athena/Billy/Choi are not top tier. The top tiers there are Angel, May Lee, Kim and some others.
Do you have examples? The hitboxes of many overpowered pokes in kof98 were actually nerfed in the other games after that.
Stop saying that, there is nothing retarded gameplay-wise about Angel or May Lee. They are one of the deepest characters.
It’s like that in 98 too. I don’t know what these one frame jump CDs are that you speak of. You can dp+C through a jump CD, contrary to what many people seem to say.
Which moves?
How…
What is this? It is possible to techhit all normal throws in kof2k2 with CD, I don’t think this is the case in 98 since it doesn’t work for me. This is one downside to 2k2.
Hmm…I guess I could do a prime list.
I won’t include Neowave nor 94’ Rebout since I never had the chance to play them too much. I also won’t include people playable in only one game.
Kyo–98’
Benimaru–98’ or 2000
Daimon–98’
Terry–98’
Andy–95’
Joe–95’ or 2001
Mai–95’ or 97’
King–99’
Yuri–98’
Ryo–98’
Robert–2000
Takuma–2000
Kim–2001 or 2002 (Eolith loved that guy)
Choi–99’ or 2002
Chang–99’
Athena–98’ or 2002
Kensou–99’
Chin–95’ or 96’
Heidern–2001 by far
Ralf–99’ or 2001
Clark–98’
USA Sports–98’
Iori–96’
Eiji–95’
Billy–2002 or 2003
Saisyu–95’
Mature–96’
Vice–98’
Leona–96’
Kasumi–99’
Geese–2002
Mr. Big–96’
Chizuru–98’
Mary–97’
Yamazaki–2002
New Face Team (all)–98’
Shingo–98’
K’–2003
Maxima–2001
Jhun–2003
Bao–99’
Xiangfei–99’
Whip–2002
Vanessa–2002, duh
Ramon–2002
Seth–2000
Lin–2000
Hinako–2003
Kula–XI
Angel–2001
K9999-2001
Ash–2003
Duo Lon–2003, seriously
Shen–XI
Malin–2003
Tizoc–2003
Gato–XI
Huh? Terry’s and Yuri’s? Maybe if you said Ralf/Clark’s and even Chris’, but I do recall Terry jump CD being useless in air-to-air battles (due to the downward diagonal angle it has) and Yuri’s doesn’t have much range. And I guess the only one who can use jump CD as a viable weapon is Chris since he can then set up his traps or what not. But hardly gamebreaking at all.
Yes, he is. :wgrin:
Well, I’ve kicked people’s asses in KOF '99 who could kick my ass in KOF '98, does that mean KOF '99 is better than '98?
Aside from the Daimon bug and (maybe) Extra Kyo’s bug, which other '98 bug could be considered ‘practical’?
Im sry but ABC is the top tier in 2k2. The Characters u just said like Kim are slightly below them but ABC are not unbeatable by any means. And whoever said Billy and Choi are runaway based is completely retarded. Athena is completely another story. Billy and Choi can rush u like assholes of they want to.Billy’s fwd+a is retardedly good for lockdown if u know what ur doing. And if u havent seen that then play someone that doesnt base gameplay on turtling. Dont assume dumb shit.
Ummm, you didn’t read. ABC is NOT top tier in Mexico. Your tiers are based off of Japanese results. Don’t tell me what I"ve seen, I just stated I’ve seen MANY tournament matches from both countries. In addition, my mains are Billy and Athena. But…the reality is that they get owned in Mexico (especially Choi).
Now, these guys, from what I’ve seen, play BETTER than the Japanese. The reasons why ABC might not be top tier in Mexico is either that Mexicans have no idea how to use them, or Mexico has developed better strategies and better reaction against them. From what I’ve seen, the latter is the case.
Fireball unblockable bugs of Athena, Takuma, Iori, Yuri, Heidern, etc etc. In addition, the Heidern charge down, up+A whiff bug is pretty stupid.
As for Chris jump CD, it’s good if it’s allowed to actually come out…it’s slow. It loses in air to air battles if you can predict he is going to jump with it.
basically the very base engine is almost the same from kof 97 to 2002/neowave
with only some addition
rolls, grabs(command and non), hitstun, hitboxes, chains, juggle and combo system work on the same way
the only noticeable changes are in gauge bars striker system bc mode and counter/armor mode
in 2k3 and xi you can see the only 2 completely new kof engine and that’s why you can have that fanboy feeling that ‘kof is not kof anymore’
then i prefer 2k2 over 98 'cause of the BC mode otherwise i can consider both on the same level
2k2 BC mode open you to so many stuffs mixups and combos
and let me tell you that BC mode isn’t only strong BC run strong some cancels to end with an sdm
maybe who complains about this system not played it decently
Uhh, I’m sorry, but if you’re falling for those unblockable fireball bugs, something is definetly wrong with you. Considering that you need to be at almost FULL SCREEN distance to apply it, I doubt ANYONE would just sit there and block a FB coming from all the way across the screen, no matter WHAT the setup is.
And if Heidern’s bug was so broken/practical, why isn’t anybody picking Heidern? :rolleyes:
a tier is not ‘a strong character decided in japan or elsewhere’
a tier is calculated on his moveset, matchups, difficult to use priorities and so on
ABC is still the top team of 2k2 all of them have pretty safe gameplay and godly priorities
the way a character is used is not the same as his tier position
angel is still considered high everywhere but only difficult to master
you’re wrong analyzing that bug in that way, it’s obvious that no one can eat for free a fireball+throw at full distance
the most common setup for that bug to be useful (as you can see in some combo and match vids) is on the opponent wakeup animation
just time the fireball to be on him during the first frames then go for the command
instead of bug i call it additional damage for those character
and don’t fall for it, athena is crap in 98her infinite setup based upon this fireball bug make her a little more playable
then remember that this bug can be avoided just releasing a startup invincible move
Wtf, who said that? Tiers are not absolute, and they change depending on tournament results.
ABC is not top in mexico. Well, Billy and Athena could be, but Choi is not. Either way, this is beyond the point of the topic…which is just a comparison of 98 to other games.
Yes they can. It may be possible to get out of it using some invincible attacks, but rolling is not an option (in Athena’s case atleast). If I teleport during the fireball and you roll it, I get a free combo.
With Athena, I can teleport forward and do a combo after the unblockable fireball.
No, that’s not how it works. Tiers change over time, they are not preset. Seriously, how did the tiers originate? Some random guy decided to create the list? No, it was created from tournament results, observations of who beats who from actual gameplay. In mexico, Choi gets beat bad by almost any character they use.
frame data, recovery, damage deatlh and taken mixup posssibilities don’t make the tiers. If so, then Vanessa would be above everyone because she deals the most damage in the game, has the best recovery in all her moves, and has a ton of mixup possibliities. Tier lists originate from tournament results…and those differ in different locations.
I was thinking that too, but then that wouldn’t explain why Eddie in GGXX #R is top tier, since he’s said to be one of the hardest to use, and very far from scrub friendly.
actually, there’s one real tier list, but we don’t all agree to what it actually is.
if there exists an amount of players who can continually keep choi out of the air, then choi can’t be effective against them, and thus he can’t possibly be top tier.
tournament results tell only who are the strongest players not tiers
if what you said is true if someone wins a tournament with seth in kof2k2 he can go from low to top tiers?
on what you said about vanessa, yes she’s definitively top tier or at least a very well rounded high ranked chara to pick (like iori)
in fact the strongest vanessa players i’ve seen had not make the opponent move for the whole round
and the same goes for kim, he’s a step befor ABC
in fact i sai d to take my post with a wide meaning
and in this there is the strenght of angel in 2k2
she’s definitively not user friendly, to play with her you have to know all of her moveset, chains, mixup
Well, if Seth happened to win or get very high in the rankings in multiple tourneys, then perhaps there is something wrong with classifying him as low tier? The damage dealt by Seth is alot higher than other characters. His moves are designed to give him alot of mixup as well. He also has decent recovery on most/all of his moves. So using your criteria, he shouldn’t be low tier.
As much as I hate Mature…and think she sucks, I’ve seen the latest Japanese tournaments, and ALOT of them used Mature…they were beating Billys and Chois too. Generallyl they were beating the majority of the cast.
My point is, in terms of mixup, recovery and damage dealt, she is above Billy and Choi (not sure about Athena when it comes to mixup). So then according to your definition, she would be higher than them.
Is she meter reliant? Does she have a lot of bad/good matchups? Can she endlessly abuse her moveset to rush down? Does she have good defensive move to escape rushdown? Does she gain meter quickly?
Mixup/recovery/damage aren’t the only things that make tiers, Rengoku was only giving an exemple of thing that did. Not giving an exact definition.
so in 3s classifying hugo as low isn’t exact
and in one of the latest sbo a team with Q and Hugo (mid low tiers right?) reached third position
it’s all a matter of player skills not tier
for seth you can only say that he have damage
mixups?compare his with kim’s mixups and tell who’s higher in the list
compare his priority to billy’s or choi’s and tell who’s fast
tiering someone is considering all of his possibilities…and comparing them with the rest of the cast
combo wise vanessa will be godly in 2k2 with her 2 stock kill
yes but she have a bad matchup against billy 'cause she has no priority over him
if angel’s priority (air ground low antiair etc etc) is 10 billy’s is 100
choi can move better on the screen and setup a crossup in better way than her
didn’t i say that you have to consider all of a chara instead of one thing?
another thing not so important to say is that some game engine can give a boost on some charas and to tiers
for a quick example gato with his qcbP A raise a lot his mobility in a fast game
while ash with long charging time for his sonic boom or sommersault can’t rely on these a lot
and there are a lot of this example
