I have heard rose and sim, but it’s not clear to me why sim would be bad mu for guile. (Some good sim players I know say it isn’t.) If you think it is one of these, please state why, and of course, if you think it’s another character, explain that thinking, too.
Dhalsim, because guile has to take such low percentage of success risks to hurt dhalsim it seems. Dhalsim and guile can both zone well but he can punish you MUCH easier and does very very good damage, while you usually have to pick and chip away at him. In alot of dhalsim vs guile matches i see lots of focus attacks or hopefully psychic flashkicks fishing for a dhalsim that is at a distinct advantage i believe, and most times it’s guiles downfall.
Rose, i don’t really feel rose is a bad matchup. She can reflect booms, so what since guiles charge time is much less. Eventually she’d lose the war, have to chase you, and probably lose. It’s like fighting a much much easier dhalsim
Guile can’t jump at all once Sim has ultra 2.
Personally I’d say El Fuerte. His splash and command grab beats Guile’s Normals and even FK. When Guile can’t use his normal as AA it makes the match very hard for him.
I just checked my data and my top 3 worst match ups are:
1.Abel
2.El Fuerte
3.Balrog
Not to mention that El Fuerte has some great crossup in that splash, which is a real problem for Guile.
I’ve found C. Viper a hard matchup for Guile, personally. It seems that Seismos are one of the few things that can punish jab booms from a distance.
Balrog is not close to Guile’s worst match, neither is Sim. Both matches just have to be played with a lot of vigilance. Guile shouldn’t need to jump at Sim. He can safely stay out of Sim’s ranges and match any type of projectile Sim can throw at him. Ex sonic booms are very dangerous for Sim. So IMO Sim has to take more offensive initiative here, but that’s not good for Sim because like Guile, Sim is not a risk/reward character, and wins by playing it safe and forcing bad offensive judgments from people.
Rog is definitely at worst even. While Rog has some good normals, Guile can zone him out. Don't worry too much about dash punches or ex dash punches. Good Rogs rarely do them outside of combos. You can pretty much zone him out, but be careful at Rogs jump ins and his hit boxes. Better Rogs make really good use of his normals moves.
I would say Guile's worst matchups are people who exploit two things. They either have safe and reliable sonic boom punishment, and they can cross Guile up easily. With that said, I believe vortex characters give him the most issues. Being able to close in the distance on Guile and start some type of mixup game is nightmare for Guile. With that said, Furte, C. Viper, and Abel to a degree are able to do this. Though I think Abel has an advantage, he doesn't have super easy ways in like Fuerte and Viper and can be zoned with a good amount of caution and knowledge of pokes and anti-airs. Still hard, but an on point Guile can beat him. You can also rush Abel down when he doesn't have meter, and turtle it up when he does.
Again Viper and Fuerte, there is a lot to keep track of. Both have good air mobility which is dangerous for Guile, meaning one bad guess and their mixup games is started. They don’t kill Guile fast, but they harass Guile a lot. People say Rose is bad, but I have not played many component Rose players, and definitely none who really know the Guile matchup.
If I were to guess however, I would say Rose does have good ways in, and she has a solid poking game once she is in. She also has a crossup game, and does pretty good damage. And slides are always the bane of Guile’s existence, and Rose has one of the best and safest slides in the game.
How do you guys feel about guiles bad match ups? Is it just me that feels guiles bad match ups are really bad?
viper/able/elf dont feel like 4-6’s to me…
I think what make Viper/Elf/Abel all 4-6’s is that they excel really good in a lot of areas but are weak in many key areas. Abel for one is very weak to crossups himself, and has pretty poor wakeup options. They get better if he happens to have meter, but they’re less than ideal. Guile can rush him down, and zone him with his better poking game. Sure Guile does have to fall back when Abel does have meter (like ex COD and such), but Guile players can pretty much assault him and not really have to worry about wakeup moves. You also have to think about the ways Abel has in. Really his way in is his jump-in j.mk which has a lot of good range on it, and has a steep angel making it somewhat hard to AA him reliably. Abel also nullifies many of Guile’s air to air options, and Guile usually take comfort in having a decent air to air game. On the ground, Guile feels like a sitting duck, as Abel seems to be able to jump at Guile for free to start his mixup game which is really hard to get out of.
Still, I belive early damage against Abel is crucial, and knowing when to go on offense and go on defense is really important too. Abel also has a pretty big hitbox, so you get more than your money’s worth for good offensive choices. For example Abel players rarely duck, and because of this they are prone to a lot of standing combos. I also think Guile can afford to waste a few stocks in this match as he doesn’t have much use for ex sonic booms and ex flashkick. So because of this you can waste a little meter. Be careful not to waste too much because you may need your super to get out of a sticky situation.
Elf is really hard. But again, he suffers Abels poor wakeup option issues. I find that once Fuerte gets himself cornered there isn’t a lot he can do. He does have ex run to watch out for, but if you’re looking for it you can throw him out of it. El Furete has even more to fear, because he has really bad health, and he can’t afford to make too many bad guesses himself. But with limited wakeup options with or without meter, he’s rarely in a good situation when pressure is being applied to him. He does have a good keep away game, so you have to be careful, because he may bait you and you could get knocked down, which is never a good thing if you’re Guile.
Lastly, Viper. She sufffers the same issue as Fuete with bad health. So there are plenty of ways you can get back into this game, granted you aren’t being gimmicked to death by her. Viper is really good at forcing you to flinch and then punishing accordingly. But it’s a gamble for her as well. I believe she is another one of those risk/reward characters. I rarely play Viper, but when I do, I tend to play this on the defense. I mixup between neutral jumps, focus attacks and backdashes to throw her off. If you happen to be at point blank with her, you can do anything you want. She’s very succeptable to throws. Just make sure you have the momentum in your favor. Her wakeup is decent, but she doesn’t have any goto wakeup options. All are pretty unsafe. So some wrong guesses can make her lose the match, which I think Viper players are cautious about. Still she seems really hard to punish, but the Windows is there, somewhere. Just can’t figure out where.
I wonder why Akuma doesn’t make the list. He’s everything that Guile doesn’t like. He has an equally good zoning game. He has a really good footsies game. He has air mobility. He has vortex. And most importantly he has wakeup. However, I’m guessing there are so few good Akuma players out there to really exploit this cheapness, that many people under rate him. Akuma was considered 7-3 in vanilla, and honestly I don’t think ANYTHING has changed.
Well-said. I’m not certain why some Guile players perceive Dhalsim to be a bad match up with characters such as Abel, C.Viper, and El Fuerte around. This isn’t ST where a couple of Dhalsim’s crouching limbs go cleanly under Sonic Booms preventing Guile to do anything meaningful at mid range. However, the truth is that Dhalsim still controls space better than Guile does with the Yoga Fire and limbs, but Guile can keep up because of Sonic Boom’s quick meter building and its safety. Just gotta always keep 'Sim’s st.fierce in mind and know its range. The match up can be tedious and frustrating because neither character can reliably construct a come back. Life leads are crucial since neither character can bully the other with dive kicks or a vortex. I’d still rather play Dhalsim any day of the week than Abel, C.Viper, El Fuerte, or Akuma. Sometimes it feels hopeless when you’ve been knocked down by these characters.
Akuma did lose the roundhouse loop, which makes his foosies much less scary. I don’t think it was too big a deal in the states, but any Japanese Gouki worth his salt could nail that thing while knowing all of it’s little quirks. His mixup between sweep and s.hk meant there wasn’t really any safe options for guile in a footsie battle. C.mk was too slow to mess with his sweep, sweep went under s.hp, c.p didn’t have the range it needed, and close booms could get stuffed with either of akuma’s pokes.
The best Akuma players really know how to create a true safe offense and capitalize the most out of ANY poke, while having good footsies. I knew an akuma who would consistently hit confirm CH s.hp xx fireball into FADC > s.hp xx lk tatsu > sweep > vortex. It made his up close game horrifying.
Now? 7-3? Eeehhhh… I’d say 6-4 but I think it’s guile’s hardest match. Unless Ibuki is giving people trouble still?
sim
viper
seth
akuma
abel
el fuerte
rose
possibly ibuki
(nearly in that order too)
trust me on seth. i’ve been saying it for ages and then i get shot down by both seth and guile mains. well the japs agree with me, so i’m right :P. this hasn’t been exposed yet because when have you ever seen the highest level of seth and guile’s have a first to 10? seth owns guile with 2 combos into stun, plus his ambiguous dive kick pressure. you can be sitting in crouch whilst blocking his strings, then he’ll just cross you up with a ground divekick (similar to cammy). even if you know it’s coming it’s an absolute bitch to aa with cr.hp (although it can be done).
Interesting comments so far. Lots of people saying sim is not as bad as the jp list says. (I think the jp tier list is full of it and take no stock in it.)
I don’t believe that Rog is a difficult mu for guile though, but if someone wants to say why it is, go ahead, because maybe I have been playing the wrong rogs. (I’ve always believed rog vs guile, at least in ssf4, is slightly in guile’s favor, due to guile’s strong zoning game wreaking havoc on rog, and rog having to guess to get in – usually at the risk being thrown out of an ex punch to do so. Plus, rog can’t cross up, so he can’t take advantage of one of guile’s main weaknesses.)
Okay, so I’m a generally new Guile main since his buffs in Super make him viable now, but Rog is my most hated matchup for everyone, as well as Chun.
How do you guy’s think the Chun and Rog matchup is in detail for Guile? I’ll be appreciate it and give my feedback too.
Rog’s just so solid defensively and if someone like Ken rushes guile down what the hell do you do? Find a block string, and get a sonic boom out and run away? With his f+mk you can’t jump out and crouching mk you can’t walk back. with karathrow you can’t throw sonic boom from a character to two chars away.
And now thinking about it, how’s the Akuma matchup? he’ll rape your sp’s minus the single time you may get him doing a trip hado with your ex sb he can fake it with a single red hado. So yeah how’s that mu too?
And thanks, hope I can help too.
About Rog. This is confusing at first for new Guile players. But basically if the Rog is a noob Rog, then he’ll probably try to close distance with dash punches. A lot of times you need to pay attention to ranges. Playing footsies with cr.lk stop them from any distance. This at long range. Also throwing sonic booms is really effective, but you have to realize that Rog’s hitbox makes sonic booms pass through his legs. So you have to be more precise when throwing them.
This will come with experience, but I would say try not to throw them a little out of sweep distance. Rog jump-ins have pretty good range to them, and it he delays his j.hp he can stuff Guile's limbs. At close range, if Rog jumps right over your head, he can usually be cr.hp relatively easily. If you catch him jumping at sweep range, then st.hp is effective.
Don't burn your meter too much unless you feel you have to. Balrogs who dash straight at point blank can be reversal supered with the lk or mk super.
Dash punches can be punished by various things, but your best punishes are st.hp and cr.mp. This IS if Rog dash punch at crazy stupid ranges and they're blocked. The only one that's not really punishable is his dash straight when spaced properly (not hard to do from a Rog's perspective). However, he has not real followups to this, so st.jab and a few choice followups will push him back out.
All ex dash punches can be thrown train yourself to see them. his ex dash straight is a little hard to see, but if you're not confident jump.
When Rog has meter, newer Rogs will generally try to ex dash punch through sonic booms. Throw light ones when he has meter, and you are a good distance away. You can neutral jump him into a big fat combo. If you catch Rogs jabbing a lot, st.HP him. If they are whiff jabs and you are in range they'll be hit everytime.
Your goto pokes in this matchup are cr.lk, cr.mk, and st.fp. cr.lk is good for meaties. cr.mk is good at midrange footsies, and st.fp is good for punishes. All stop midrange dash punches (non-ex) relatively easy.
If you get an untechable knockdown, use cr.lk as a meaty. It will prempt ANYTHING he wakes up with. Also on untechable knockdowns, cross him up as he really has no answers to crossups. You can go for a simple combo, a frame trap, or a throw mixup.
Also if rogs love to mash jab while you're attacking them, stop your strings early, and good for a counterhit cr.mp or st.hp. It's all about training Rog not to mash
There are very few Rogs out there who know what they are doing with him. That's basically my Guile on stopping noob Rogs who have the habit of fishing for jabs and dash punching.
As for more advance Rogs, well, it’s best you get comfortable with the noobs first.
Slinkuns post on Akuma is really on point. While Akuma doesn’t really have his hk jab loop anymore, it’s just his tool period. The common thread of most bad matchups for Guile is their ability to vary their air game, their mixup game, and their crossup game. The thing about Abel, Elf, and Viper is that they have some level of risk involved in their game. They all have poor footsies, and really can’t base their game around pokes.
This is where Akuma shines though. He has a good air game, a superb and scary mixup game, and he has crossups. And the thing about Akuma, he can get knockdowns on Guile relatively easy. So let's say you were able to guess right on a lot of his air fireball, and demon flips, then you only have footsies. But the thing is, he beats you here too. At least with Abel, Viper and Elf (although they all have tools to get around footises) you can play this game and win. With Akuma you can't. So in my opinon you aren't left with many real options beyond getting lucky.
With that said, the Akuma matchup seems to be very much about positioning and spacing. It can be fun, and test your skills as a Guile player. Any competent Guile player should have zoning and spacing down to a advance degree. I think against Akuma, you have to utilize this moreso than against anyone to stand a chance.
I main both Sim and Bison. I couldn’t help but browse Guile’s SRK page hoping I could find tips on beating him, and found this beauty of a thread. I can’t help but chime in on my opinion of this matchup for both my mains. My good friend mains Guile, so I face him on a periodic basis.
Dictator: Very difficult. I try my hardest for that knockdown and don’t let him escape. The wall of Guile is too much. 7-3
Sim: I don’t know why the Japanese list this as 7-3 in sim’s favor. Those crazy pedophiles must be trollin’. This is a grindfest for both parties. Life lead and keep away. Most matches end near a time out with a terrible long range footies game. My teleport is virtually left useless, I eat a stand fierce every time. I’d agree with Branh0913 and say it’s 5-5. For me though, I have a hard time in this match.
Bison vs Guile is a lot better for Bison now. He’s got improved psycho crusher and ultra 2. You just have to know how to fight Guile using Bison. 7:3 is cos many Bisons don’t know how to fight Guile. But for those who know, I think the matchup would be around 5.5 to 6 in Guile’s favor.
Once Sim has ultra 2, Guile can’t jump no matter in which direction. Sim can just teleport, ultra 2 if Guile tries to jump. Whereas good Sims will only throw yoga fire out of SH range and hp if he’s in range of SH. Guile doesn’t have a lot of mixups if he manages to get in and Sim can just keep walking forward and trade SB with hp in his favor. He easily gets Guile in the corner this way. The increase in his hp damage really affects this matchup a lot. And I think he has the unblockable ultra setup in which you can only FK or eat the yoga fire to escape. You have to take damage both ways. EX yoga fire also destroys Guile’s game. I’ll say it’s even before Sim gets ultra and 7 : 3 once he gets ultra. And Sim’s teleport isn’t as useless as you think in this match. You just have to anticipate SB and do it slightly earlier to catch Guile’s recovery.
Dhalsim, Fuerte, C. Viper, Abel, Seth, and Akuma. Maybe some others I am missing. The thing with 'Sim is he has many ways to get around sonic booms, and his long limbs can punish you heavy. You need to focus to get in and take a risk, otherwise he will eventually get you with his shenanigans. Here’s a good 'Sim I faced, pretty much illustrates the match: get in or you’re toast.
[media=youtube]rZ4SjSKhCxs]YouTube - ?SSFIV Norieaga [Guile] v. Garageguy89 [Dhalsim[/media]
Dhalsim
Fuerte
Abel
Blanka
An online Gief