I feel I should put this first since its a long post n this pretty much summarizes my issue n reason for creating thread: in short my main gripe is that ABC’s and shortened ABC’s do more dmg than solo combos or in most cases not much less which is where capcom messed up imo. It takes away reasons to do a lot of character combos n that’s horrible because there’s no incentive to learn, in depth, majority of cast .
This will offend some people but that is far from my intention. Boost combo’s or ABC’S as I call them kill me and sfxt. I’m all for some normal hits opponent and you quickly adjust and take advantage. I’m also pro ABC’s when it comes to new players and all the way up to B+ rank players using them as their main offensive tool because hey you have to start somewhere. ABC’S are good to use to get acclimated to matchups spacing and footsies. However, if you are A rank and above( I bring up rank only because its a easy indication of time spent on game) they should not be your main offensive tool regardless of character. I feel it is lazy to rely on full ABC’s or even shortened ABC’s for 85% of your gameplay and players abusing them shouldn’t be considered good or top players or applauded in any way. I feel ABC’s kill high level play since it overshadows all other aspects of game. I feel this way because in sfxt you can win( and a lot of people do) by solely using ABC’s and this is a issue since its a universal tool and every character can do them. Every character in game has links, every character has their own combos and a year in the game I wish we would see more of of them. I feel we as people who like and enjoy the game should promote combo heavy type of play at high level. If you disagree believe me I understand as it is apart of the game I just feel its a bit over done and in some cases overpowered. The arguments I hear are: for some chars that’s Max dmg …well if you think about it, its Max dmg for all characters no meter. Sure jump in HP/hk, St.HP/hk, etc. solo combos could do tons of dmg but so could jump in HP/hk, St.HP/hk, launcher. Launchers can b used every time you do anything and net u an easy 300+ dmg which is an issue. Y learn cool tech for characters? Y go really in depth in sfxt if the game rewards you so much if u don’t. That is y I hate ABC’s. That is y they are overpowered and its y they killed sfxt. Capcom gave up on sfxt but I can’t so all I ask is plz if u like a specific character learn everything about them find out usefulness of everything in their arsenal work on ways to put them in your game, then apply them in match. The game is more fun that way thanks for reading.
By now Im convinced its a SF related thing to have a boner for execution heavy gameplay - Tekken has pretty much only boost combos and juggles and very few links, which is why they are in SFxT. (since, you know, its not street fighter tag team tournament with tekken guest characters, but street fighter x tekken)
Also Im not sure if we are playing/watching the same game, but every time I see pros play they only use boost combos when they are the best source of damage for their character (eg: Rolento) and its usually only ‘noobs’ who do boost combos with characters like Jin or Law. Same with me - If I use a character with low solo damage, you can be pretty damn sure I will be using boost combos and launchers - thankfully, this is not an issue since all my characters deal above average solo damage so I tend to use boost combos pretty much only when I need to switch a character out
I don’t really agree with the OP. I see abc launcher being used in footsies more often and solo combos (if they are worth it) in punish situations. In SF4 it’s most of the time just a stray hit whereas in SFxT a random far lk by Abel or far st. Mk by Sagat can lead into a lot of damage. Both of these characters don’t really have solo combos to use when they get stray hits, so the optimal thing to go for is launcher. Ryu’s cr. Mk xx hadouken poke isn’t strong in this particular game and it’s way better to fish for cr. Mk launcher.
There are characters which are suited for solo combos (mainly tekken characters such as Kazuya, Nina, Law and Kuma) and characters with good footsies but more situational damage output (mainly SF side with, Chun, shotos, Sagat and Guile for example). There is no FADC to confirm into crazy solo combos off of stray hits.
I don’t see the problem when the launcher is the best way to get damage for that character. Chances are said character excels at getting these stray hits. This is what makes these characters with limited combo potential strong.
Launchers can also activate gems, which can further increase your damage output.
I can’t see how you want to change this without nerfing characters who are only good at getting launchers/tag cancels.
Thinking of boost combos as a poison killing SFxT can really limit your play. It’s a mechanic, and should be used. Think about it logically. Depending on your point character and your partner, boost combos can actually improve your damage.
I’ll use an example with Marduk, since I’m guessing you use him. He has a good hit confirm with his medium punches. But let’s say your partner has really shitty post launch damage like, say, Ryu. You might actually get more damage in total if you use 3 linked medium punches and a boosted hard kick instead of just the three medium punches.
I used to hate boost combos too. Then I saw Ryan Hunter integrate boost combos into his play so intelligently, and I knew I had to make some changes.
@Dex_Sama: Start with cr.lk, since it’s a low. Obviously that’s the optimal combo.
Buffering from pokes (see the post Dex made about stray hits)
Tagging in the other player for free when your point character needs to get out
Canceling into EX moves (lol the Cammy combo above is actually a decent example)
Activating gems
Doing damage in situations where your point character can’t do much other damage (read - characters like Poison or Rolento)
However, I agree they should not be used for everything.
boost combos give character with no linkable lows an option…Raven’s cr lk is a good low but cannot be linked or used for hit confirm. But with 1 bar of EX I can go for cr lk into boost chain into ex shuriken since it is safe on block and leads to a juggle full of heavy attacks afterwards (st. Hk, cr. hp, cadc, cr. Hp into H altergo)
1 frame link into a jab? Lol…this is a scenario i would rather boost chain like a smart person instead of practicing a 1 framer that leads to a tiny fraction of extra dmg…way to go
If you’ve got the execution there’s no reason not to go for it as the damage off it is pretty good and it’s a safe low confirm even if you mess up. If not, whatever. Doesn’t change the fact that it still exists.
I don’t think it’s wise to nerf boost combos any more than they already have. Maybe if they had more strategic uses with the launchers, we’d get a bit varied game play and they wouldn’t be that bad (maybe if one variant switched your char, and the other one could be canceled into special moves and stuff, that’d be cool). Still, in regards to this game’s current build, nerfing damage more won’t deter people from using boost combos. It WILL cause more time outs because boost combos already do moderately low damage, anyway. In most cases, you need to have an on point post-tag combo in order to stray much farther than 300, let alone get 300 at all, and in most cases, you’d rather go for the reset than try to elongate the combo. I honestly think that people just need to learn the characters over blaming boost chains.
What kills ME on the other hand is when I see a perfectly good opening being punished by lmhh, jmp. LP/K -> lmhh, or not being punished at all. And I mean like BIG openings, like a char being switched out and you’re right next to 'em or something. At that point, I expect the player to pull out their harder(est) hitting combo starting off a medium or a heavy, if not a jumping medium or a jumping heavy. It’s when people punish others with lights. That’s when I hate it, but that’s not the game’s fault. That’s people not improving their play.
I almost quit this game last year because I thought boost chains were too effective and overshadowed other aspects of the game. However, now that the vast majority of boost chains have been nerfed to be very unsafe on block, they have become little more than a combo tool. It is no longer possible to mindlessly throw out boost chains without fear of punishment, so for players to still be incorporating them into their gameplay (outside of combos), they actually need skill.
The vast majority may be unsafe on block, but there are quite a few that are still safe on block. Characters like Bob have Cr LK into one of his normals that is +0 on block. Other characters like Vega can still boost Cr MP into St HP and although its quite negative, the pushback makes it safe against many characters. Vega vs. Kuma is an unfair MU for that reason alone.
I feel that they should make boost chains have no pushback on block. Furthermore there shouldn’t be any boost into a medium attack that is less than -9 on block and no heavy that is less than -18.
That way not most, but all boost chains won’t be thrown out mindlessly. So if you want to be safe, then you should need to confirm.
Thanks for showing that it exists. However, Its still very unpractical. Hit confirming off 1 frame links its unpractical in high pressure situations. Which leads up to the point that I was trying to make that the chain system does have it uses besides “derp ABC launcher, derp ABC EX move, derp let me punish everything with ABC into whatever, rinse and repeat”. I would rather risk burning a bar by going directly into Cr.lk, cr. mk, St. close fierce chain. Especially if I have my meter gems on block. I know it would make players familiar with the match up expect the low if I have meter but that’s when I play MIND GAMES and try other things.
Then again, wouldn’t that lower damage output across the board? Especially for those trying to get in in the first place? If everyone’s scared as fk, they’ll be utilizing lights more than ever, and those lights will drastically decrease damage output when the combo starts, especially if you’re just confirming into a boost.
Some chars might need a lil more looking into, but if we make everything a confirm fest, I’m not sure if we’re really getting anywhere. It’ll make Tekken chars EVEN STRONGER cause they confirm with their own chains, while SF chars blast the light attack button until they realize “Hey, that’s hit-stun, not block-stun”.
Not really. Yes you may see more confirms into longer boost combos but the big damage combos don’t start from boost chains anyways. I currently use confirms only with Vega unless I’m punishing and I don’t have problems KOing an opponent with Vega. Playing footsies is very rewarding even if I am not getting big damage in just one combo. If it wasn’t rewarding then players would never throw a fireball in a range where it can be punished since the damage is only around 60 damage and the punish can yield over 500 damage.
Also most characters already have to confirm. It would just make it a little more fair if that was balanced across the board with boosts. Ryu for example can’t just do Cr MK into a safe boost, but characters like Vega can off of his Cr MK which isn’t fair. Tekken chains are conceptually fair for the Tekken characters because they are supposed to be balanced in other ways.
For example Tekken chains may have shorter range than linked combos. Tekken chains may have hits that sometimes does less damage than the equivalent normal. Certain Tekken chains force you to stop after a 3rd or 4th hit to be safe frame wise which makes it easier to know what the opponent is doing and also allows you to AC easier. Many Tekken chains are also negative on block even though they are safe. Certain Tekken chains also damage scale quite a bit because it forced you to do a few weaker hits. Also the Tekken characters who have the stronger Tekken chains should have other factors that balance them as a character.
Having said that, there are only a few Tekken chains which I feel are a bit too strong because of the range and comboability, while being safe on block. These should be slightly tweaked especially if boost chains all become unsafe across the board.
